Appraiser Cameras

[Randall Garrett]

Metamorphic,

In a word, I would say it diminishes it significantly, but it is not totally eliminated... How fast does it need to be to qualify for the "eliminate" rating? What are you comparing it to - a shooter like your TZ5, an older SLR, a typical sub-$1K DSLR, an upper end device?

The m4/3 format is a DSLR in (most) every way that a traditional DSLR is. If you are referring to the "lag" between button press, the "ka-thunk" and image capture, the newer format improves on that because the mirror present in the SLR/DSLR does not have to retract. In upper end cameras, this lag is negligible for most circumstances and professional photographers have been dealing with or compensating for this forever. The most common technique is to use "burst" shooting and shoot before and continue "through" the desired event. Upper end cameras are typically faster than lower end cameras. But, compared to the typical "shooter", most good DSLR cameras feel (and are) faster than your garden variety shooter in this regard anyway... Anyway, the M4/3 design allows for an improvement in this area over other sub-$1K DSLRs. You'll find this, and other, aspects discussed and compared in the reviews...

I'd say that in comparing the G1 to your TZ5, the G1 is much, much faster - due to several factors common in a shooter like a TZ5. Plus, you get that "I'm using a 'real' camera." feel. I have used the G1 since beta and have enjoyed my retail model for several months. It has become my overall favorite camera for a number of reasons - its relative compact size and weight is certainly a major factor, as is the performance. It will not compare to one of my older Leica or Canons, but they were 4 - 6 times the cost. Note that I am not a professional photographer and high on my list is the performance right out of the box. I do little-to-no manual stuff, though I am glad that I can if I were to want to take the time... ;-)

Also, I have not used the E-P1 at all. I saw an engineering sample at a show that was reportedly accurate for size/weight, etc., but this is not the same as everyday usage. I am, however, very familiar with the Panasonic LX3 - a remarkable compact shooter. The LX3 is basically a better built shooter body with a superior lens. Being a shooter, the lens is fixed. I view the EP-1 as the next step up to an LX3. Panasonic has a competitor to the E-P1 in the wings but it has not even been formally announced AFAIK, so the E-P1 is the only thing on the near horizon to challenge the G1 in this category (mid-priced, etc.) and I am thrilled that they took the other approach to design as it gives the consumer a choice for "style." I'll report on the E-P1 when it comes in but the G1's performance will be just a memory by then as it is being replaced by the GH1 which is in a different class. I am sure, however, that the camera geek sites will do comparisons between the E-P1 and the G1 as soon as they are both commonly available.

Right now - for ME - I believe I prefer the G1 because there is more choice in "native m4/3" lenses, but that is sure to change in the coming months.

Hope this helps!

-Randall Garrett-
..Apex Software..

 

[OSU Beavers]

Randall,

Still no camera This will be my first time shooting RAW and I am not sure what to do. I have Corel Paint Shop Pro Photo, Corel Paint Shop Pro X and an old Wacom tablet but don't use them much. I understand RAW takes some image post-processing. I'll figure it out.

Now if I could just find a micro4/3 wideangle lens for less than $1000.

 

[Randall Garrett]

You must be getting anxious OSUB... I know the feeling. I guess you are tracking it... RAW is just that - RAW, so you will need to do some processing, but there are several (very) low-to-moderate programs for that. PSP does a fine job - used that program for years and still using a pretty old one. I have "moved on" in that regard but let me know if you want suggestions for other software (one of my faves is free.) FWIW, though, after doing everything in the RAW format at first, I have since moved on. Again, I am no pro but after a while working with RAW was just too much trouble and sort of got in the way of me enjoying the photography. Of course, YMMV...

On the lens, how wide do you want to go? Your 14mm is about a 28mm equiv. I know we've all come to expect something wider than that now but it can make a huge difference when it comes to HOW wide... Are you looking for something like 7mm or will 10mm or so do? I'd love for someone to make a 10 - 65mm zoom - pancake, of course, LOL. The closest I have seen is a 12 - 60mm f2.8-4.0Zuiko (Olympus) but like all zooms, it is a honker, especially now that I am used the m4/3 lenses... ;-) BTW, did you see that nifty 14-42mm Zuiko zoom that the E-P1 has? I love the way the hood retracts into the barrel. I actually saw that on the engineering sample and it is really nice. Anyway, on your G1, you might want to go to the official site and take a look at the release schedule and specs for the upcoming m4/3 lenses. The 14 - 140mm from the GH1 will reportedly work just fine on the G1, but I've not been able to verify that. The Leica 7 - 14mm f4.0 should be available soon... Is that what you meant by a $1K zoom? I've not been lead to believe it will be anywhere near that price.

-Randall Garrett-
..Apex Software..

 

[OSU Beavers]

I finally got my camera yesterday and played with it last nite. It is light and small for an SLR. I really like the flip screen LCD. Macro was dissappointing at first, but then I screwed on one of my 52mm close up filters and got nice images. I like the fact that the built in flash does not washout the subject.

I switched to the telezoom at dusk and tried some low light close ups which blurred due to the low shutter speed. Lots to learn about in camera the adjustments. Will check back in later.

 

[David Beasley]

Which ones will let you adjust picture size? I don't need 10-12mb size pictures. I only need 50-100kb for my reports. What about batteries. I hate proprietary type. I like the idea of running into the store and replacing dead batteries. Can you post the same picture at the different focal lengths? What the picture captures at 24mm, what it captures at 25mm, 28mm or 35mm. I’m looking to replace my current duct tape holding the batteries in camera.

Don't look for cameras that let you adjust picture size...look for an appraisal package that has image editing built-in, then you can resize them as you drop them into your report.

With digital cameras, it is best to gather ALL the data that you can (shoot larger image sizes), and then reduce the size when you get ready to actually use the image. That way the image is as full color and sharp as possible...when you take a 10MP camera and dumb it down to 1MP for shooting, it is leaving out data to make the image that small, then compressing it down in size, losing even more data (ie: JPG compression is lossy, means that it actually loses data as it is sized down and/or compressed).

I use a very old Nikon DSLR, the D100. It can shoot 10MP RAW images...though I do not do that...But I do typically shoot "Large - Fine" quality images that are several meg on the camera and chop them down to less than 100k each when I insert them into my photo addenda - via WinTotal's rudimentary editing functions in their Images sub-app. Their smart resize function works well, creates very little detail loss, and can compact them down to very managable sizes. Even my VA reports today (which include a scan of the entire contract) go in at less than 2MB in size - and that's 3 ext subject photos, 4-5 comp photos, and often times today, a few interior photos too.


Also, someone, way back in this multi-year old thread, spoke to GPS-encoded EXIF data...EXIF data is only viewable when you have the actual image file (RAW, JPG, GIF, TIFF, PS, PSP etc) and not when you dump it into a report addenda...They would not be able to mine the GPS-enhanced EXIF data from a comp or subject photo unless you actually provide the image file or a copy of the image file, they can't get at it from a PDF "flat file" that contains no supporting files (actual image files, spreadsheets, etc). Technically, each page of a PDF is an image itself (all the data, forms, typing and images have been "flattened" into a single viewable image of a virtual page)...and you can't access any image data from any of the images embedded in those pages.

Now, if they could get your photos...then you'd be correct. You don't even need an editing program to view EXIF data if you use WinXP, Vista and likely Windows 7 which is right around the corner. EXIF data is viewable by simply viewing the "file properties" in Explorer. Find an image on a drive in your computer, Right Click -> Properties -> Summary -> Advanced = There it is, the date, time, lens (make/model), lens setting (what zoom, etc) shutter speed, aperture setting, and every other active setting on your camera when you captured the image...see image below.

 

[Randall Garrett]

FWIW, I read a review on several water-resistant cameras a few weeks ago on DPReview, but the selection of devices unfortunately did not include the more recently introduced (and superior IMHO) models. I've written the author and asked if he will be updating his review with the likes of the TS1, W80, etc. He has responded and said that if the manufacturers will send him the devices, he will gladly review them and update his findings. I found it interesting that for image quality, his current findings were that the Canon was the best, closely followed by the W60. Historically, we've found most Canons to have the best out-of-box photos, but the W60 produced noticeably inferior snaps. I've used the Canon for about a week and find that it does, indeed, make great shots (about the same as the TS1 in my subjective opinion) but of course, it lacks the wide angle lens which we deem necessary for appraisal work. I'll post a link to his review if/when he updates it.

Also, FWIW, I've found that the TS1 does, indeed, have a 16:9 setting beyond the preliminary menu settings. I thought it strange that the only 16:9 setting for the TS1 was a 2 MP setting. The error was mine - I just did not look deep enough. I am fairly familiar with Panasonic shooters now and just did not look in the right place. That said, the highest MP resolution for 16:9 shots is 9MP, not the 12.1 MP of the 4:3 selections. Not a big deal to most since most, if not all appraisal photo addenda have 4:3 photo frames, but I wanted to point out my mistake since a lot of users prefer 16:9 for their personal/recreational photos these days. But then I am absolutely sure none of us would use our business cameras for personal use since we wrote off the purchase as a business expense... ;-)

I have received word that my w80 is on the way, but I am not sure if it will arrive before I leave on a trip, so I am not sure if I'll be able to give it a spin before the beginning of August. Initial reviews on engineering sample units indicate that the unit performs substantially better then the W60 and I hope this is the case, but we'll see...

Regards,

-Randall Garrett-
..Apex Software..

 

[Metamorphic]

So my wife, who's camera IS a waterproof model, borrowed my Panasonic Tz5 for a trip to the ocean.... "because it takes better pictures", where she tripped and dunked my camera. So I guess I'll be reviewing your camera sheet more closely.

 

[Randall Garrett]

FWIW, DP Review has updated the review on waterproof cameras as promised, by adding the Pentax W80 and the Panasonic TS1

Summarily, they find that the top cameras in a tie are the Canon PowerShot D10 and the Panasonic TS1. Honorable mention goes to the Pentax W80. The Canon gets the nod for its overall image quality, but knocked for the 35mm equiv. lens and bulk. The Panasonic has near-Canon overall image quality but gets the nod for the 28mm equiv. lens and smaller size, but knocked for softer images at max telephoto and only 10' water depth rating. They also knocked the "interface" - primarily the fact that you have to hold down the power button for about a half second (vs. just a single tap) to turn it on. I find this to be a "feature" vs. a liability since we tend to carry cameras in our pockets and may not want the camera inadvertently being turned on. The TS1 also got high marks for longer battery life and best of class HD video recording (minor point for inspections perhaps, but nice for family stuff.)

Obviously, for appraisal use, the TS1's 28mm lens is vastly more important than the underwater rating, and the smaller, more pocket-able dimensions are a big plus. While the thought of using an inexpensive camera for your snorkeling adventure might sound appealing, I'd think that for our demographic (appraisers/inspectors working in "the elements"), the most important things are:

Wide angle lens with reasonable telephoto
Decent photo quality
Standard storage card
Drop damage resistance
Water resistance (for rain/sleet/snow)
Dust/grime protection (attic, crawl space, dusty environments)

Having tested both cameras, I agree with the reviewers overall photo quality ratings. I have no major complaints on the TS1 photo quality and still continue to recommend this camera for appraiser/inspector types as a great all-around camera. We'd all like to see something with a stronger flash (all of the point-n-shoot cameras are weak in that department), but the TS1 compensates well for this in most circumstances, and an optical viewfinder would be great.

Link to the full review with sample images and video examples is here: http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/Q209waterproofgroup/

Hope this helps!

-Randall Garrett-
..Apex Software..

[Edit] - BTW, I see that they finally offer the TS1 in Orange for the same price as the solver and green. While I prefer greens, orange is the color I would have for work and play - makes it harder to lose, LOL. That color was mentioned during beta and was desired by our industrial type customers for obvious reasons, but we were never able to get it. Seems to be available at a few normal on-line retailers for about $10 more than the more pedestrian silver...

 

[Metamorphic]

Just today I took my new Panasonic TZ-6 out on its first job. Mixed bag of better and not-better from the TZ-5.

The 6 does not seem to have the same build quality as the 5. Not that the 6 is bad, its not I'd call Average (+)-Good, but the TZ-5 felt like Excellent in your hand. The 5 also had a better grip to it. The 5 also a higher resolution rear screen. Nice but not really necessary. Looking at pictures on the back of the camera is not what its all about .

On the plus side for the 6 is the wide angle. The 5 was a 28mm-280mm, the 6 is a 25-300. That extra 3mm of wide angle makes a huge difference in shooting interiors. The pictures it produces really give you a much better look at small rooms and allows you to give a much better scope of a larger great room. The 5 was good at this but the 6 is great. The little bit of extra zoom is not really noticeable, but the camera had enough power to stand back a ways from a second story roof and take a good screen filling close up of the surface to document condition, which is always helpful. The 6 is also a little bit better in that they moved the mode selector dial. Its location on the 5 ment that when ever you pulled it out of the case it would roll to a different setting. On the 6 its more protected.

 

[Blue1]

Great thread! I have a beat-up v-705 that I rely on. Heh...You can FEEL it when you turn that little sucker on!! I have a 'back up' camera (Nikon CoolPix 'pocket camera') that I have been toying with but haven't quite figured out the shutter..It has a delay...And not such a wide angle but a pretty nice optical zoom.