Appraiser didn't measure during interior inspection

[Dale Hill]

WOW is all I can say, as a party chief as a land appraiser for well over 10 years, if you can not or do not measure even the most complex home in less than 30 minutes, with very few exceptions, it baffles me how you can claim to be able to state that you are able to comply with Standard 1, regardless of what is or is not required of you. It seems to me a lawyer will have you for lunch. In todays litiguos (sp) society if I was you, I would be at least be as much or more worried about a jury trial than a state board hearing. What is a negative finding from a jury going to impact your business? Cripes, measure the subject you are appraising instead of making excuses why you don't need to... an ouce of prevention....

 

[Chuck Melton]

Tip O The Iceberg

How much does 136 squ. ft. affect value? How close was the measured squ. ft. to tax rolls? Was the comps GLA obtained from tax rolls too, therefore "consistent"?

You are not appraising the comparables. You are appraising the SUBJECT. I believe we have a responsibility to get it right, especially when we have access to the subject and could just measure it.

Of course you have to use public records and/or MLS. We typically don't have physical access to the comps.

If one of the comps GLA figures in public records is incorrect, it's effect on value will be muted by the fact that you utilize more than one comp in your analysis. However, 100% of ANY error in quantifying important aspects of the subject, like GLA, makes its way into your opinion of value.

If the biggest problem with the report is that the appraiser relied on a sketch from public data, I dont think theres much ammunition against him/her and regulatory boards are already overwhelmed with legitimately bad appraisals.

Not even CLOSE to the worst part..... just the point I am having the hardest time with in writing the complaint against this guy.

 

[PropertyEconomics]

Colorado is a disclosure state. Additionally, we have one of the best assessor's office in the state and I am beginning to believe in the nation from what I read here.

My addenda give credit to the public records as a source, including GLA. I have a disclaimer that says IF there is a difference, consideration is given to the public record.

Do you actually trust the public record to be accurate on a home they measured 15 years ago? And if I read you correctly, if there is a difference between your measurement and theirs you defer to theirs?

This is quite a statement. Im glad I live in a nondisclosure state where public records are not available. Looks like we may have better appraisers here ... we atleast are not so lazy as to not measure the home.

I am simply astounded at how lazy people in our profession are ... simply astounded.
It is certainly time for a shake out .. and I hope it happens soon. SO SO SO many need to get the hell out of our line of work because they just dont understand the power of their position or what their true mission is ... no wonder we have no public trust .. most are too damn lazy to earn it.

 

[Hamlet]

measure the subject you are appraising instead of making excuses why you don't need to.....

It has been my experience that it is less time consuming to do something and get it done than to make excuses why it can't/shouldn't/won't be done.

 

[Couch Potato]

WOW is all I can say, as a party chief as a land appraiser for well over 10 years, if you can not or do not measure even the most complex home in less than 30 minutes, with very few exceptions, it baffles me how you can claim to be able to state that you are able to comply with Standard 1, regardless of what is or is not required of you. It seems to me a lawyer will have you for lunch. In todays litiguos (sp) society if I was you, I would be at least be as much or more worried about a jury trial than a state board hearing. What is a negative finding from a jury going to impact your business? Cripes, measure the subject you are appraising instead of making excuses why you don't need to... an ouce of prevention....

Dale, in most states relying on an assessor's number for size is a typical practice for real estate agents and is the method used for size of comparable properties. When real estate professionals have use the assesor's number, disclosed that fact and been sued, the real estate professional has won either at trial or on appeal; a lawyer would need to go somewhere else for lunch.

This is not the case here in NC, but it is in FL. In fact from the south Florida appraisers I have met, the assesor's number is probably more reliable. I was told by one the best way to measure was use a wheel and round to the nearest foot, give me that assessor number every time. No question that the best practice is to measure, and do it well. But not measuring in and of itself is not a reason to doubt the credibility of the appraisal.

 

[Mztk1]

Dale, in most states relying on an assessor's number for size is a typical practice for real estate agents and is the method used for size of comparable properties. When real estate professionals have use the assesor's number, disclosed that fact and been sued, the real estate professional has won either at trial or on appeal; a lawyer would need to go somewhere else for lunch.

This is not the case here in NC, but it is in FL. In fact from the south Florida appraisers I have met, the assesor's number is probably more reliable. I was told by one the best way to measure was use a wheel and round to the nearest foot, give me that assessor number every time. No question that the best practice is to measure, and do it well. But not measuring in and of itself is not a reason to doubt the credibility of the appraisal.

Well speaking as someone from Florida, and Couch I know you were from Florida up to what a year or so ago?, I measure every house with tape to 1/10th of an inch. Got into an altercation over my measured living area of +/-2600sf compared to another appraiser who measured it at 3200sf...and of course right away I am the bad guy because my measurement is lower resulting in a lower value...and it was said to me I have to be wrong because the other guy matches tax data exactly. I asked, "Did he measure that himself?" He didn't. He's gone. The house was 2600sf.

A lot of people think they can tell the difference between 2600sf and 3200sf just by walking through. I got news for them...unless you are thinking about the living area while walking through, you really can't. You walk through, you get home, and look at tax data, and you say, oh its 3200sf, and that's it. I went through one the other day that tax data said was 1200sf and I didn't think anything of it. I went home, put it on my sketch, and it turned out to be 1650sf. I had to double back to make sure I was right. I was. Had to grab new comps too, ugh.

When you don't measure, I guess tax data seems accurate. But when you do measure, you realize it is wrong (and by wrong I mean off by 100sf or more) about 10 to 20% of the time and very wrong (more than 10%) about one out of every 20. Don't hold me to those numbers. Just guestimates.

 

[rcsone]

......estimate the measurements, approximate the SOW, exaggerate the comps, minimize the time, surrender the fee, educate through the "line".....could be the new standards by the future numerics of the new "Peers".............would be counter evolutionary for the old, principalled(ie: non-competitive...) to survive........afterall the world by lenders with the appraisers' participation populated the market with those that either "could or would" do what was proper work to get the loans made................best to all.......rs

 

[Webbed Feet]

Dale, in most states relying on an assessor's number for size is a typical practice for real estate agents and is the method used for size of comparable properties. When real estate professionals have use the assesor's number, disclosed that fact and been sued, the real estate professional has won either at trial or on appeal; a lawyer would need to go somewhere else for lunch.

This is not the case here in NC, but it is in FL. In fact from the south Florida appraisers I have met, the assesor's number is probably more reliable. I was told by one the best way to measure was use a wheel and round to the nearest foot, give me that assessor number every time. No question that the best practice is to measure, and do it well. But not measuring in and of itself is not a reason to doubt the credibility of the appraisal.

C.P.

Love your posts. Your a great guy. But you needed more coffee this morning.

WOW is all I can say, as a party chief as a land appraiser for well over 10 years, if you can not or do not measure even the most complex home in less than 30 minutes, with very few exceptions, it baffles me how you can claim to be able to state that you are able to comply with Standard 1, regardless of what is or is not required of you. It seems to me a lawyer will have you for lunch. In todays litiguos (sp) society if I was you, I would be at least be as much or more worried about a jury trial than a state board hearing. What is a negative finding from a jury going to impact your business? Cripes, measure the subject you are appraising instead of making excuses why you don't need to... an ouce of prevention....

Mr. Hill's post was about measuring the subjects, NOT the comps! I found his post pretty much right on mark in the sentiment of it. I don't agree with his view of how long it should take to measure "even the most complex home in less than 30 minuties," as I have been at one SFR subject site for six hours measuring improvements before. But I know he meant that generally it just does not take that long to measure since the appraiser was supposed to be there anyway and actually LOOK at the fricking house! You know, actually walk around the outside all the way around the house and actually look at it?

Webbed.

 

[Mike Garrett RAA]

I can certainly tell the difference between 2600SF and 3200SF, IN MY MARKET.

Just because a person uses data from the public records does not mean that person is lazy. It means they consider all data available to them. I have never suggested an appraiser NOT measure a property. What I am suggesting is if there is a small difference between what is of public record and my measurement, I defer to the public record. I measure to the nearest 1/2 foot.

Seems Economics has a problem with everyone on this forum. I resent you calling me lazy, you don't know me and have never worked with me. For the record, I get a copy of the sketch from the assessor's office. I make copies of it and print in on the back of my inspection form. I then pull a tape to confirm their measurements.

I am not a draftsman. Measuring to 1/10 is well beyond that which is expected by my clients and that which my peers would do in a similar assignment. The sketch is used to help the client visualize the improvement. Measurements are approximate and round may occur.

 

[Chuck Melton]

It has been my experience that it is less time consuming to do something and get it done than to make excuses why it can't/shouldn't/won't be done.

A chief I worked for in the Navy once told me, in response to my explanation that I had been in a hurry to do something which because of my haste didn't get done properly;

"Well Melton, you didn't have time to do it right the first time, but you are sure as hell going to find time to do it again!"