Appraiser Trainee Running Their Own Business?

[Dale Floyd]

Wow..... Now the IRS is accused for dictating the supervisor role of a trainee. This is becoming a bit comical. I agree with DTB.

Again - My perspective - It doesn’t matter who owns the business. The IRS could care less about that arrangement.

The supervisor has to be certified, and is liable for his/her trainee’s work. This is true. And the trainee is under direct supervision of the certified supervisor PERTAINING TO APPRAISALS ONLY. This is also true. But do we actually believe that means the supervisor has to write employee manuals, dictate lunch hours for their trainees, collect FICA, SSN, and medicare taxes for W2 reporting, or force trainee’s to comb their hair in a certain way? I just don’t believe being a supervisor is synonymous with the responsibility of owning and running businesses. That’s is why the rules do not say “a trainee has to be an employee of his/her supervisor.” Perhaps that would be the easiest of options, but that’s not what it says and even the Florida law allows more than one supervisor.

Further - I don’t believe there’s any state appraiser commission who envisioned an argument that the certified appraiser has to be an investor of businesses and an employer in a firm to accomplish the role as supervisor to a trainee. That’s just too much to swallow, respectfully.

 

[The Warrior Monk]

Wow..... Now the IRS is accused for dictating the supervisor role of a trainee.

This is not complicated.

Can the trainee produce their own workproduct, free and independently of others?

The answer is obviously no.

No supervisor; no business. Nobody can even arguing that.

If the appraiser has absolutely no ability whatsoever to work on their own, the CANNOT be considered an independent contractor. This is just simply obvious. This is true of doctors, accountants, etc.

The rest of discussion is simply centered on how to avoid obvious.

 

[DTB]

This is not complicated.

Can the trainee produce their own workproduct, free and independently of others?

The answer is obviously no.

No supervisor; no business. Nobody can even arguing that.

If the appraiser has absolutely no ability whatsoever to work on their own, the CANNOT be considered an independent contractor. This is just simply obvious. This is true of doctors, accountants, etc.

The rest of discussion is simply centered on how to avoid obvious.

WTF are you even talking about?

WHO is trying to classify the appraiser as an IC?

HE is an employee of the firm.

99% of the time may be spent making coffee and 1% being trained as an appraiser.

The SUPERVISOR is an IC who spends 99% of his time completing appraisals and 1% as supervisory appraiser.

They could both be EMPLOYEES it wouldn't matter, just that the trainee can't be an IC. I have no idea why one would think a business owner would desire to be an IC of their own firm-which is what you struggling with.

Man, the appraisal regs are really clouding your view on this issue of BUSINESS ORGANIZATION.

You will never be convinced and I would not hesitate to structure a business in this manner. So I will agree to disagree.

 

[The Warrior Monk]

You will never be convinced and I would not hesitate to structure a business in this manner.

The issue is not with me, it's with the people that advise me that have expertise is such matters. I'm simply regurgitating the advice of my accountant and attorney.

 

[DTB]

The issue is not with me, it's with the people that advise me that have expertise is such matters. I'm simply regurgitating the advice of my accountant and attorney.

If you are communicating with your advisers the same thing you are communicating here, we are talking about significantly different concepts. Such as whom you wish to make an IC.

 

[DTB]

So even if the trainee is allowed to own the company and hire a supervisor as an IC, when it comes to the trainee's work, the trainee is not an IC of the supervisor.

Example above is one of the disconnects you are making.

So, if Mike owns the firm-ABC Appraisal Corp.- and Mike is a trainee employee and Joe, an IC at ABC Appraisal Corp., is assigned to supervise Mike...who is Mike's employer? Joe, the IC supervisor? Me thinks not.

Run that by your advisers because that is the crux of this thread.

 

[The Warrior Monk]

Example above is one of the disconnects you are making.

So, if Mike owns the firm-ABC Appraisal Corp.- and Mike is a trainee employee and Joe, an IC at ABC Appraisal Corp., is assigned to supervise Mike...who is Mike's employer? Joe, the IC supervisor? Me thinks not.

Run that by your advisers because that is the crux of this thread.

I can do that..

But keep in mind, Joe isn't assigned to do anything; he's an IC. He's being hired to train someone at the company that does not have the ability to perform work on their own. Not only is Mike accepting liability for the workproduct, but so is Joe, and his employer. Is it common that companies accept full responsibility for the workproduct of independent contractors? The answer is, of course, no. Joe, and thus his company, is not working independently of Mike, hence no IC relationship exists.

The "advisers" are accountants and attorneys. You can substitute accountant or attorney for appraiser. How many accountant and attorney firms do you see set up this way. If you aren't aware of any, why do you think this is the case?

 

[Meandering]

I can do that..

But keep in mind, Joe isn't assigned to do anything; he's an IC. He's being hired to train someone at the company that does not have the ability to perform work on their own. Not only is Mike accepting liability for the workproduct, but so is Joe, and his employer. Is it common that companies accept full responsibility for the workproduct of independent contractors? The answer is, of course, no. Joe, and thus his company, is not working independently of Mike, hence no IC relationship exists.

The "advisers" are accountants and attorneys. You can substitute accountant or attorney for appraiser. How many accountant and attorney firms do you see set up this way. If you aren't aware of any, why do you think this is the case?

If the company is set up as a corporation
both the trainee and the mentor can work for the corporation
without conflict of interest, as corporations are separate legal entities
and it does not matter if the trainee, or the supervisor, or the burger joint down the the street
is the major, or only, shareholder.
.

 

[The Warrior Monk]

If the company is set up as a corporation
both the trainee and the mentor can work for the corporation
without conflict of interest, as corporations are separate legal entities
and it does not matter if the trainee, or the supervisor, or the burger joint down the the street
is the major, or only, shareholder.
.

Individuals receive appraisal licenses, not corporations. Setting up a corporation doesn't change the relationship or responsibilities between a supervisory appraiser and their trainee.

 

[The Warrior Monk]

Can anyone cite any other business relationships involving independent contractor relationship whereby:

1. The "independent" contractor has direct control of the actions of an employee;
2. The "independent" contractor is required to keep records for the employee because the employee is not licensed to act on their own;
3. The company must assume liability for both the actions of their employee and the "independent" contractor because the employee is not licensed to act on their own.

Don't you think AMCs would've figured out how to do this if they could? Hire and army of trainees as employees and contract CRs to supervise them.