Appraising is like a minimum wage job.

[J Grant]

You seem to believe the AMC-users don't care about their costs. 15-years of their demonstrated conduct notwithstanding.

Once again it seems we are talking about two different things.

The appraisal does not COST the lender anything since the borrower pays for it. When the lender orders direct, they pass the borrower-paid fee to the appraiser ( the C and R fee )

An AMC typically takes a fee split from the borrower paid to pass through an appeal $ amount. The borrower still paid the appraisal fee, it still does not cost the lender anything - but if a lender uses an AMC they save a bit of $ by not running a panel. I cant' comment if they get a kickback or not - I have no idea if that is the case.

No matter what, you're going to have a hard time preventing appraisers from crossing your union's electronic picket line to underbid the C&R. Especially when it's not a closed shop.

The above wrt your comment - the AMC does not pay C and R - as does VA and direct lenders - the AMC pays as low as they can and the second interpretation of it, which never should have passed, allows them to use their own surveys for their C and R - only it does not exist, since they always are fee shopping and fee bidding. Yes, appraisers underbid at an AMC, but they are not underdoing a fee that is C and R- it simply does not exist in AMC land.

A lender lowned caprive order AMC , pays a blend of C and R - they take a smaller, set amount as a split from the borrower paid C and R fee, but they typically pay the same to all their panel at that rate and don't solicit lower fees/fee bid fo the regular orders Tey typically will pay higher fees for complex/high-value properties, and the appraiser can submit the fee they want for those orders.

 

[Digger88]

these complex assignments can be a challenge. I had an 8 million dollar appraisal last week and 3 comps were on (or next) the same street

 

[George Hatch]

Once again it seems we are talking about two different things.

The appraisal does not COST the lender anything since the borrower pays for it. When the lender orders direct, they pass the borrower-paid fee to the appraiser ( the C and R fee )

An AMC typically takes a fee split from the borrower paid to pass through an appeal $ amount. The borrower still paid the appraisal fee, it still does not cost the lender anything - but if a lender uses an AMC they save a bit of $ by not running a panel. I cant' comment if they get a kickback or not - I have no idea if that is the case.

No matter what, you're going to have a hard time preventing appraisers from crossing your union's electronic picket line to underbid the C&R. Especially when it's not a closed shop.

The above wrt your comment - the AMC does not pay C and R - as does VA and direct lenders - the AMC pays as low as they can and the second interpretation of it, which never should have passed, allows them to use their own surveys for their C and R - only it does not exist, since they always are fee shopping and fee bidding. Yes, appraisers underbid at an AMC, but they are not underdoing a fee that is C and R- it simply does not exist in AMC land.

A lender lowned caprive order AMC , pays a blend of C and R - they take a smaller, set amount as a split from the borrower paid C and R fee, but they typically pay the same to all their panel at that rate and don't solicit lower fees/fee bid fo the regular orders Tey typically will pay higher fees for complex/high-value properties, and the appraiser can submit the fee they want for those orders.

You don't care what AMCs get paid and neither do I.

You care about what appraisers get paid, and so do I. That's why I keep returning to the question of what does/doesn't improve for appraisers. And ignore the fortunes of the AMCs altogether.

What are you going to do when Your-Daily-Bid.appraisals.com comes online and the amount of the winning fee changes by the hour? Say that when appraisers directly compete with each other for assignments that those aren't arm's length transactions?

"Ding-Dong, Amazon calling." ​

 

[J Grant]

You don't care what AMCs get paid and neither do I.

You care about what appraisers get paid, and so do I. That's why I keep returning to the question of what does/doesn't improve for appraisers. And ignore the fortunes of the AMCs altogether.

What are you going to do when Your-Daily-Bid.appraisals.com comes online and the amount of the winning fee changes by the hour? Say that when appraisers directly compete with each other for assignments that those aren't arm's length transactions?

"Ding-Dong, Amazon calling." ​

I hope the nightmare scenario you dreamed up (or who else did ?) never comes to pass.

It makes no sense since it would barely provide a living wage that professional appraisers would compete in a daily bid for AMC work with winning fees changing by the hour -when no other profession on earth does that - appraisers would cease to exist because that idea of competing like that for AMC scraps is so impoverishing and humiliating, that the former appraisers would quit do something else, even if it is Amazon. If a few are left and participate in it, good luck to those poor souls. People would migrate to other areas of appraising or quit.

 

[Terrel L. Shields]

Direct lenders do not let their panel underbid C, and R. That is why it is called, C and R.

I guess I don't understand that. I mean many banks have vendors lists and send out bids. I would aver those are more difficult to get than an AMC bid that you might negotiate. Bid your regular fee and usually you get underbid.

 

[George Hatch]

I hope the nightmare scenario you dreamed up (or who else did ?) never comes to pass.

It makes no sense since it would barely provide a living wage that professional appraisers would compete in a daily bid for AMC work with winning fees changing by the hour -when no other profession on earth does that - appraisers would cease to exist because that idea of competing like that for AMC scraps is so impoverishing and humiliating, that the former appraisers would quit do something else, even if it is Amazon. If a few are left and participate in it, good luck to those poor souls. People would migrate to other areas of appraising or quit.

The only reason it wouldn't come to pass is if the technogeeks don't get around to it. If someone like me can imagine how such an app might appeal to the lenders then that's an extremely low bar for the CRN types to clear.

And BTW, did I mention that nobody cares what happens to appraisers or if they're satisfied with their fees? Because if I didn't then I meant to.

 

[J Grant]

I guess I don't understand that. I mean many banks have vendors lists and send out bids. I would aver those are more difficult to get than an AMC bid that you might negotiate. Bid your regular fee and usually you get underbid.

Terrel, you do not do GSE lender work so or course you would not understand it. Any bank of course can ask vendors to bid. A bank is not an AMC, but a bank can use an AMC to handle the orders.

A bank or lender can not fee split with itself, so they have no incentive to get low bids for regular work. They will usually ask for bids for a complex or high-value loan; for regular GSE work, the banks or lenders set the same fee to their panel each year per C and R surveys- again, that means, typically, no bidding on the regular orders.

If however, a lender or bank uses an AMC . the AMC has an incentive to fee bid or fee shop the regular noncomplex GSE orders because the AMC gets compensated from a split of the fee, and the less the of the fee the appraiser gets, the more $ the AMC gets.

 

[George Hatch]

You keep equating the prohibition against using appraisals as a profit center with removing all incentive to control their costs.

 

[J Grant]

The only reason it wouldn't come to pass is if the technogeeks don't get around to it. If someone like me can imagine how such an app might appeal to the lenders then that's an extremely low bar for the CRN types to clear.

And BTW, did I mention that nobody cares what happens to appraisers or if they're satisfied with their fees? Because if I didn't then I meant to.

Lenders by law are supposed to pa C and R for GSE-regulated work, not fee bid , on an app or otherwise, No, the lenders would not be interested in it, because why does a lender want to waste time all day dicking around with $25 differences wrt appraisal fees on an app? The banks and lenders make money off loans, not by for some setting up bids to lower an appraiser fee.

If they did that, why not do it for title work or insurance? Like why would a lender want to be on an app lll day dicking around with vendor fees they won't profit from?-

Even an AMC might not want to use such an app and there comes a point where if it drove fees too low for AMC work, virtually no appraiser would want to do the work.

 

[J Grant]

You keep equating the prohibition against using appraisals as a profit center with removing all incentive to control their costs.

How many times do you need to be told taht teh borrower pays for the appraisal, so whether the borrower pays $200 or $400, the appraisal costs the lender nothing either way?

The only way appraisal costs are lowered to a lender is if the lender uses an AMC to relieve some admin costs of a panel, and some lenders are already doing that.

In addition, lenders and banks are supposed to assign work per C and R, not by low fee bids over an app or otherwise, and since it does not lower their costs for appraisals, the borrower coves anyway; why would a lender risk get sanctioned for it?

If you belive n that this app could be a money maker and your or someone o know can sell it to clients then go for it -