Assessed Value Of Storm Water Management Ponds

[JTip]

Does Pennsylvania assess private streets in developments?

Private roads, in my experience, are generally part of a parcel, or servient. Road maintenance agreements are in place and taxes are paid by the servient parcel.

So the taxes are paid, but not defined as a private road.

edit: I too have seen lot lines to the middle of the road as DREA said.

 

[Gobears81]

That is interesting. In Illinois, roads are typically immediately dedicated to the municipality, but from a standpoint of maintenance/ snow removal, rather than those items on top of taxes. Detention ponds and common areas don't have any assessments levied. I looked at the most recent subdivision appraisal that I did which had private streets and the street was not recognized as a parcel (or part of a parcel). In one county that I appraised several subdivisions in, they have developer-held lot classifications, and the taxes were roughly $15/ year/ lot, which makes this type of thing more attractive than counties in which they look to determine an actual market value (though the percentage of subdivisions around here that are feasible to develop is pretty low relative to those that are actually developed).

Considering JTip, Marion, and DREA are all in PA and have all noticed these assessments, it looks like there is precedent there of going that route. I am intrigued in the evidence that is provided to support market value for a separate sale, particularly if the other subdivision lots have an assessment that is near market.

 

[Eli]

Think about this too. I saw one where it was poorly designed in a high end development and guess what happened to $500,000 homes? They had about 2 feet of water and mud in them.

I believe the state had to get involved in redoing roadway drainage.

Do you think the homeowners association took care of that? The developer was already bankrupt.

City park is a good use. Name it after the mayor.

 

[Terrel L. Shields]

The politicians consistently kiss the azz of the ag industry

That is a stupid statement on the face of it. If my land is worth $5,000 as development land its value to me is in use. I don't want to sell it and any attempt for everyone with similar land to sell as "development" land would collapse the market to a few bucks an acre, a hedge fund would buy it, bribe the solons so that it gets taxes at fire sale rates...stupid. My farmland would be assessed at 20% of that. And, my property taxes would basically quadruple. The land component would be around $6,000. Many farms that are near town are complex with huge barns. But if land was selling for $20,000, the operation would cease due to tens of thousands in taxes, and the productivity of the farm products would cease to be gobbled up as suburban sprawl. The last two in my neighborhood sold for over $3 million. That's 90% improvements and the tax take is enormous because value in use applies only to bare land, and not even the land under your house. But many building intensive operations make a lot of money and can pay for high taxes. My farm has not netted $6,000 for decades. I would have to sell out. I can't pay $500 a month on top of my expenses now. I would have to sell. So do you want to pay $30 for a bottle of soy oil? $4 each for corn on the cob? $100 for a steak to take home and BBQ? Fine, tax the farmer to death. Let hedge funds and Uncle Sugar own all farm land and see what happens. Taxing farmland, woodlots, and timber would be the death of land ownership in America.

Moreover, farmland not only supplies our food, but if the farm economy collapsed you would be not be in a famine, your government would lose tons of income taxes...far more than property taxes would generate.

As for the environment, all those vacant woodlots, hunting club lands, and property held for the environment would be gone. Timber them off and let it go back for taxes...taxes so high after 3 years, no one would buy them...again you would create a massive transfer of wealth and power to the filthy rich while destroying the environment.

So what pasture or field needs police protection? paved roads, utilities? What woodlot has a need to build a courthouse...a museum or a library? That is things that people want, not land. That is things improvements people use and live in pay for.

 

[Meandering]

Does Pennsylvania assess private streets in developments?

Depends on the street.

My street, I own half of the road bed, and the property across the street owns half of the road bed, while the HOA only has access easement across our lands as "the road", and yes, we are assessed for that land.

That's why parcels break out as net and gross acreage.

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[Meandering]

Private roads, in my experience, are generally part of a parcel, or servient. Road maintenance agreements are in place and taxes are paid by the servient parcel.

So the taxes are paid, but not defined as a private road.

edit: I too have seen lot lines to the middle of the road as DREA said.

Some HOAs and Declarants own their road beds, some are split up between lot owners, like mine, and some road beds are dedicated to the municipalities.

And this is not just an issue in residential subdivision. The same holds true in industrial parks and other types of commercial subdivision. Some roads in those places are still private roads where the Declarant holds title to the road beds.

However, those private roads, can not be built out as "through" streets, connecting two municipal roads, without Penn Dot approvals and engineering. That's why you'll see some roads that would make great cut across time savers are blocked at one end.

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[Meandering]

Considering JTip, Marion, and DREA are all in PA and have all noticed these assessments, it looks like there is precedent there of going that route. I am intrigued in the evidence that is provided to support market value for a separate sale, particularly if the other subdivision lots have an assessment that is near market.

Limited utility land, is the best bet for any "comp" to a wetland drainage. But size matters. We have dead slate mines, where nothing can be built, and lots of sharp pieces of slate in piles everywhere, that is low grade and no one wants. But they sell for hunting, and I know a guy who bought one so his kids could ride ATVs on it and not have issues with the local police. Did a swap of swamp land from the Industrial Development Authority to the State for uplands the state had in the Game Lands program. Actually had a couple of sales of cliff face North of I84 that were bought by people who also have property at the foot of the cliff. But a one acre parcel with a retention pond, that has to stay, is beyond understanding any additional utility in the surface, unless there is gold there or other valuable mineral rights. Depending on climate and zoning, perhaps you could raise feeder frogs there, for resale to snake owners. Although I would definitely research any profit potential, even if you could get the land for free. You'd still have to cover the taxes and insurance and keep the birds from eating your frogs.

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[Meandering]

Our county just did a county-wide reassessment. A friend developed a small subdivision, and the county applied parcel numbers and values to three stormwater management areas in the subdivision. The SWM areas are owned by the homeowners association, which is really the developer, as there are no other common area elements and no HOA dues. The developer/owner is arguing that the SWM areas have no value, and I agree, as they are dedicated to SWM and can never be developed or improved with anything. I can't foresee any potential buyers. I am being asked to provide valuation support for a tax appeal, as the county's lawyer told the property owner she needs to have valuation support from an appraiser.

Is there anything less (quicker and cheaper) than a restricted appraisal report that I can provide, given that this is really a highest and best use issue resulting in no market value? I know that anytime you provide a value, you are providing an appraisal. In this instance, there is no value. If anything, the value is negative, as the owner must maintain the SWM ponds and fences. I'm not even sure a restricted report is appropriate, but I think she can get away with it at this stage of the appeal process.

I'm looking for ideas. If I need to prepare an appraisal, I will. In reality, the tax dollars saved don't warrant spending much on an appraisal. But that, of course, is the owner's decision. I'm just trying to figure out what the cheapest option might be for her.

Any thoughts or suggestions are welcome.

Look for an PA MAI by the name of Vince Dowling.

He has my highest recommendation.


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[Mr Rex]

We have subdivisions with both public roads and private roads.
Private roads have to be built to, here, PENNDOT standards, for width, setbacks, curve radius, slope grade. The roads have to get PENNDOT approval, prior to being built in order for the municipalities to accept them.

If the roads are not PENNDOT approved, they must be brought up to standards of PENNDOT in order for that to happen after build out.

Roads are not retention ponds.

SUBDIVIION ANALYSIS the AI has a great course in it, but experience doing subdivision analysis is the key to understanding the interaction of approvals, and laws.

Do not assume that roads are private because of government budgets.

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Many of the roads I am talking about were designed and built to NCDOT standards, but were not subsequently accepted into the NCDOT system because someone finally figured out that it was a losing proposition. I went around and around with a closing attorney here recently because there was a stamp on the plat that said the roads were built to NC DOT standards and signed by a DOT engineer. But I asked, where is the other stamp? What stamp? The one where the DOT actually agreed to take over maintenance. To have to tell an attorney with a JD and who knows how many RE closings that if a road is not on the official NCDOT county road map, its not a state road, its private, was a bit concerning. In the end I just provided him the name and number of the NCDOT engineer in charge locally and said if you think I'm making it up as I go along, call and ask for yourself.

 

[Meandering]

Many of the roads I am talking about were designed and built to NCDOT standards, but were not subsequently accepted into the NCDOT system because someone finally figured out that it was a losing proposition. I went around and around with a closing attorney here recently because there was a stamp on the plat that said the roads were built to NC DOT standards and signed by a DOT engineer. But I asked, where is the other stamp? What stamp? The one where the DOT actually agreed to take over maintenance. To have to tell an attorney with a JD and who knows how many RE closings that if a road is not on the official NCDOT county road map, its not a state road, its private, was a bit concerning. In the end I just provided him the name and number of the NCDOT engineer in charge locally and said if you think I'm making it up as I go along, call and ask for yourself.

Interesting.
Did you ever find out why DOT is approving projects and then not accepting them?

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