College degree?

[Oregon Doug]

I was one of those fortunate ones that was able to attend collage way back in the 60's (you know, the good 'ole days) and came out with an undergraduate degree in Aeromechanical enginering (Univ of Arizona) and an MBA (Univ of Colorado).

Having those degrees didn't hurt me one bit (and it was a lot of fun too). They enabled me to enter the world of commercial appraisal and acquisitions analysis right out of the box. I doubt that many of the major corporations are gonna hire a kid without some sort of degree for a real job now and working among the suits is where many of us learned how to run our own companies - well.

I suppose that if your asperations lean toward being a form-filler-outter for the mortgage lending industry, having a degree isn't really necessary. I doubt that it hurts though.

Over the years, I've tried a few experiments - I've been rich and I've been poor. Take it from one who's experienced - being rich is better than being poor (I'm gonna go back to rich again soon). I think that the same holds for education - being educated appears to be better than being uneducated. I believe that having an education is a good thing, not a bad thing. Just remember - you can use it (or not) if you got it but can't if you don't.

My advise is get it if you can.

Oregon Doug

 

[bobburnitt]

Well Folks,

First I would like to say this: I know there are some very good appraisers that have a lot of experience and maybe little or no college. I would also like to state that I have known some educated idiots in my time, in many different fields. I think that it may be interesting to point out that of the infamous "Texas Seven" (the 7 convicts that escaped from a Texas prison last year and were the subject of a nationwide manhunt after killing an Irving Texas policeman), two of these escapees had bachelor degrees.

Having said all of that, I would like to ask a few questions. Would you use a Certified Public Accountant that did not have a degree? (You couldn't if you wanted to because they cannot get their certification without a bachelor's degree). Would you go to a physician who had only "hard knocks" experience, and no college or medical school? In Texas to be a certified surveyor you must have a minimum of a bachelor's degree. In Texas, to be a real estate broker, you must have 900 contact hours of core and related real estate courses before you can sit for the brokers exam (the equivalent of an associates degree). Would you use an attorney who had only "practical experience"?

I would never say that just because someone does not have a degree they are an incompetent appraiser, I am saying that this "profession" will never be regarded as a profession until the bar is raised.

In Texas a State Certified General Real Estate Appraiser only has to have 180 hours of appraisal courses to sit for the exam. The experience requirement is 3,500 hours. The experience hours (by law) are only verified in 5% percent of the applications. It is my belief that many experience hours are padded. NO WONDER APPRAISERS ARE NOT RESPECTED. Everybody else has more education than the typical appraiser. The people that go to college have "hard knocks" experience as well as degrees. Don't assume that just because someone has gone to college that they haven't had real life experience. Having real life experience is fabulous. Having real life experience AND a degree is even better.

Of the appraisers that I know that do have degrees, many of them have degrees in something that is NOT real estate specific. If you are working toward a designation with the Appraisal Institute, an Associates Degree in Real Estate is less valuable to them than a 4 year degree in pig farming. Figure that one out.

There are too many appraisers. That is one of the reasons that fees keep going down, collections are difficult, and appraisers are treated like dirt. Anything that is abundant is never appreciated. It is too easy to become an appraiser. It is supply versus demand Baby.

Raise the bar, make it harder to become an appraiser. Lets have some ENFORCEMENT of EXISTING laws. We have more than enough regulation, we just need enforcement. Put the crooks in jail.

I am not discounting anybody's experience or ability just because they don't have a degree, I am saying that if you want this racket to be a profession, you are going to have to pay the dues that real professionals pay.

BB in Texas

 

[Mike Garrett RAA]

This should blow your minds...I am all in favor of degrees for appraisers! All new appraisers, that is.

Most of you know I facilitate the registered appraisers course (75 hours) here in Colorado Springs. Just started a new class last night. 19 people who want to be appraisers. They range from the unemployed to REALTORS® who are tired of sales. Bartenders, firemen, mortgage loan officers, cops, and people in rehabilitation programs. Few, if any, have any formal training in real estate or appraisal.

My point? I believe too many people are getting into the business with no real formal training. They will end up working for someone who will give them little or no training. In just over a year the State will let them test for a license and they will consider themselves "appraisers".

We wonder why the lenders and fannie mae feel we are not necessary. Because it is all too easy to get a license and hold yourself out as a professional. Self serving? Yes, I think. I have 22+ years in the business. I entered it after 13 years in real estate as a salesman, broker, and trainer. My dues have been paid.

It's time for us to re-consider what it takes to be an appraiser. Formal education (a major in business with minor in real estate and /or appraisal) will help improve the educational level of the entrants. Grandfather all those current license holders. Enforce the current license laws...weed out the bad seeds. If we don't...none of us will have work.

Nuf said...says the old guy!

 

[Frederick R. Ruffell]

I'll agree with mike garrett.
I think many of the respondents to this issue assume that just because one attends and graduates from a 4 year undergraduate program that they have aquired an education. Nothing could be further from the truth. Only those ( in an undergraduate program) that go beyond the course requirments really begin to learn anything other than just the bare minimum required to advance to the graduate program where the real in depth learning begins. The only exception would be perhaps the highly specialized and technical subjects. It is my belief that the requirement for appraisers should be a BS in a closely related field, no BA's. Perhaps there should be a national exam ( akin to the Board test that lawyers must pass) and if you can pass that then you get to practice regardless of where you obtained the knowledge.

 

[bobburnitt]

RIGHT ON MIKE!!!!!!!!!

You da man!!!!!!!!

BB in Texas

 

[Cookie]

I've got to put my 2 cents in! Mike has some very good points....but each state is different when it comes to requirements for licensing appraisers.
I just finished four of the toughest years of my old life, getting the hours together to FINALLY be licensed in Indiana. In this great state, you have to have 90 hours of classes, passing all tests for each class, then sit for an examination for a Trainees' license. You then have to accumulate 2000 hours of supervised appraisal work. No easy task, mind you, since the State dictates how many hours each type of appraisal is worth - not the actual time you put in! Here, you cannot be licensed before 2 years of experience is completed - no matter how many hours you accumulate!
I do not have a degree, but have a background in Real Estate, and have a brokers' license. I am still learning! Now, I am allowed (by the state) to do reviews, I can test for FHA appraising, and have some other opportunities that I did not have before as a Trainee.
A degree would be a wonderful thing for a lot of appraisers to have, however, there are many people who do not need a degree to do this work. To make it manditory for all to have a degree would only serve to punish some deserving folks who can not afford a college education! But, on the other hand, might weed out some others who only want to make a fast buck.
Not because I don't have a degree, but I'm not sure that a degree IS the answer!

 

[bobburnitt]

Cookie,

Your state's requirements are EVEN LESS than Texas'.

A "profession" you can get into without a degree, ain't much of a profession.

BB in Texas

 

[Tim The Enchanter]

Strong work ethics and a healthy dose of common sense seem to be what counts the most. Those traits are better attributed to a good upbringing and genetics than from education.

Dee Dee, I agree. There's educated fools and uneducated but wise types.
But think how the wise guy would be with some good education? Of course most people end up doing something different than their major.

I have a BS in Biz Admin, 1981 (thanks folks for making me feel sort of young, seeing your grad years). Am I a "suit"?, not a chance. But that's what they were teaching. Took some computer classes a few years ago, but can't see any reason to go for the MS- More S***, or the PHD- Piled Higher and Deeper at this time. Got that "well rounded" education. Writing, crunching numbers, girls, cheap beer... But I digress. :lol:

Formal education (a major in business with minor in real estate and /or appraisal) will help improve the educational level of the entrants. Grandfather all those current license holders. Enforce the current license laws...weed out the bad seeds.

Mike Garrett, yes raise the bar for the future. No need to kick out those among us who may be good appraisers but never made it to or through college, but good riddance to the bad seeds educated or not.

My $0.02, the current system here is way too easy. Last I looked it was a couple classes, a test any Bozo of half decent intelligence could pass if they studied a bit, then 2000 hrs as a trainee to get fully licensed. I'm not sure if you even need a HS degree, or a GED. Of course the agent license is even easier! No wonder so many are so very "competent". 8O

 

[BigBlueGA]

The salesperson licensing test here in GA was so easy that a retarded monkey could pass it while sleeping... a total joke.

I took the 75 hour (I think.. can't remember) prelicense class on the computer and finished it in 6 days working on it about 6 hours a day. Then I passed both the school and state tests with a ninety-something.

What amazes me is hearing the stories of the people who couldn't get past the class test and had to take the state test 4 or 5 times before they passed....

 

[Dee Dee]

What amazes me is hearing the stories of the people who couldn't get past the class test and had to take the state test 4 or 5 times before they passed....

I hear ya! After I completed my two years of apprenticeship I quit working with my mentor and spent a full month studying for my certification test. I was certain it was going to be very difficult based on the stack of books that I was told by the class instructor that I would be tested on and was required to purchase as part of the study material.
Got to the testing facility and there were at least 15 other people who took the test at the same time as me. Through the entire thing I kept thinking that the next question would be a real mind bender, but it never happened! It was almost a repeat of the test that I took to get my beginner's license! I finished the exam, and was the first one to leave the room, certain that there had to be some kind of mistake because the questions were so basic. I even double checked with the people overseeing the exam thinking that perhaps they accidentally gave me the rookie test! Truthfully, I was disappointed...it didn't seem right not to be at least a little bit challenged.

If I were to change anything as far as appraiser education is concerned in my state (CO), I think it would be to raise the bar significantly HIGHER for those testing for their certification and to completely eliminate the Licensed status between rookie and certification. There needs to be a minimum of two years of experience under a supervisor before anyone should be given a license to fly solo. The state board needs to get tougher about checking appraisal logs...I know of a few people who 'fudged' the number of hours they've worked and nobody questioned them.

Requiring a college education won't cull out the bad apples. What is needed is for individual state appraisal boards to get tougher.