Data Cancer found....

[chad hampton]

So how do you identify a waiver since JG contends there is no way to do that

I can’t, and that’s the problem. Most of the residential appraisals we do are most likely contributing to the problem because of the data cancer that we have no choice but to use.

 

[Digger88]

I dunno about the $430k. It seems to me that the list price at $410k might have made more sense when compared to the slightly larger non-view property that sold for $397k. Then again, maybe that view in that neighborhood is worth $30k or $40k. Hard to say without looking at a lot more data, starting with the sales histories of every home that backs to that lake.

But there were apparently multiple offers and the one that got the sale was the buyer who had $130k of their own cash to put into the deal.

This is a view property. Nobody should even be using this transaction in appraising the non-view properties unless they're stuck and have no other alternatives. Not to mention the point that appraisers routinely toss the outliers.

Now I get the point that from the appraisers' perspective price-creep in the data becomes a problem for them. But the lender is getting valuations (appraisals or otherwise) for the purpose of making a reasonable loan; they're not getting appraisals for the purpose of regulating pricing in the market. Nor is price-suppression or equity protection the role of appraisers.

I think that if appraisers are worried about price creep from waivers hurting the market participants then the target demographic for that argument is the buyers. "Now is a great time to get an appraisal to avoid paying too much. Trust your local appraiser because they're the experts. "

I see 10% lot premiums here in some new construction yet few appraisers I see make view adjustments at all in Total's comp exchange

 

[J Grant]

Some brokers already limit how much info they disclose in their listings or when talking to appraisers. I'm not sure what it would take for the listing services to compel the brokers to disclose financing terms in their listings.

Will you get off the ideat that it is about brokers talking to appraisers

It is that without the waiver disclosed on public records or AMDS, the way other financing is slowed, and NOBODY, not just appraisers, can evaluate what impact their use has on market prices.

And since, there is no downside to disclosing it, so why do you argue in favor of keeping it hidden?

 

[J Grant]

Ah, another dishonest reimagination of my commentary. I get it.

I'm all for more disclosure when compared to less disclosure. Never have I said or suggested otherwise on this or any other appraisal-related issue. I just don't think "waiver financed" disclosures in the listings will make a difference at the buyer/seller level. After all, that's where the contract prices are established; not in the appraisals.

When you keep arguing as you do in these posts, it sounds like you are against disclosures. What else is the point of it ?

Contracts and sale prices rely on prior sales and if waivers are sending sale prices up it will invisibly affect buyers and sellers.

 

[TerryRohrer]

I'm all for more disclosure when compared to less disclosure. Never have I said or suggested otherwise on this or any other appraisal-related issue.

When you keep arguing as you do in these posts, it sounds like you are against disclosures. What else is the point of it ?

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[George Hatch]

Will you get off the ideat that it is about brokers talking to appraisers

It is that without the waiver disclosed on public records or AMDS, the way other financing is slowed, and NOBODY, not just appraisers, can evaluate what impact their use has on market prices.

And since, there is no downside to disclosing it, so why do you argue in favor of keeping it hidden?

Will you please stop accusing me of arguing to keeping the info hidden? That's a lie and every time you repeat it you are lying. Stop lying.

So now if it isn't the brokers inputting that info into their listings in an MLS system (or alternately, disclosing when an appraiser contacts them to ask), then where is that info supposed to come from? Public records often show the amount of the financing due to the legal documentation in those transfers. They don't report the terms, let alone what types of underwriting that were involved.

That's not intended to be a leading question, I'm just trying to ascertain how much thought you're putting into your commentary.

The point I've been making is that *even if* appraisers are informed of every waiver-financed transaction in their dataset I don't think there's any reason to believe it will affect the outcomes of the appraisals because those transactions did occur and the buyers did pay those prices in cash or terms comparable thereto.



Waiver financed doesn't conflict with any of the assumptions expressed above. Even if it did, how would an appraiser go about applying an adjustment factor for a waiver-financed sale? By assuming on the evidence-free basis that all waiver transactions are overpriced? Because that isn't an example of professional appraisal practice.

 

[J Grant]

When fannie or freddie grants a loan, they can provide Waiver disclosure to the agent or the broker who can put it on MLS.

My argument is not limited to the outcome of appraisals. my argument is that no outside analyst can determine the effects that WAIVERS have on a market since there is no disclosure readily available.

Though indeed, if it were available to appraise just as they know about FHA or other financing, such as cash, the appraiser could determine if a price might have been affected by a WAIVER

The MV definition does not even cover waivers since they did not exist or exist on any scale for purchases when the definition was developed. Waivers do not act like a concession, they are thei own unique thing that can influence price due to their specific valuation method, allowing a RE agent or loan officer or SC to determine the value for the LTV% of a loan ( as long as it is within the who eve sees it? AVM range )

With an appraisal, everything is out front - the sales used, the methods used, the narrative explanation. The appraiser's name and license to be linked to it.

 

[George Hatch]

So you're thinking the brokers will voluntarily edit their listings after the sale? Maybe.

 

[TerryRohrer]

When fannie or freddie grants a loan, they can provide Waiver disclosure to the agent or the broker who can put it on MLS

I didn't realize Fannie or Freddie made or "granted" loans. Seems your commentary hinges on being "granted" (aka, unencumbered by facts).

 

[J Grant]

So you're thinking the brokers will voluntarily edit their listings after the sale? Maybe.

They do now, adding FHA or cash etc to the listing as well as that it closed.