Data Cancer found....

[Fernando]

Doxing someone's personal information, including their address, even if it's publicly available in records, is generally considered unethical and potentially illegal depending on the context and jurisdiction.

Charles does that all the time.
And he still gets it wrong and spread misinformation.

 

[George Hatch]

How would the AI burden me from saying anything appraisal or AI related? I see you've only been on here since 2020. Know that George and I go way back. We have been on the same team concerning many issues over the years.

IMO we still are on the same team on most if not all issues. I want what's best for appraisers in the environment as it actually exists.

 

[J Grant]

Descrvign it as data cander is an odd term.

However, one can not deny that this is a new phenomenon - lending on purchases on a large scale where as long as it fell within a Secret (who sees it ?) FF AVM range, the value is the sale price 100% in a Waiver. Without disclosure easy to see, such as FHA, cash, etc it is not possible for people to run statistics or judge how much impact they have on market prices.

Call a broker is the answer.....it is problem because that takes tons of time - sift through twenty sales and make 20 phone calls and 20 emails or texts to find out which 4 were WAIVERS? And that assumes the RE agent gets back to you at all, or even knows whether a WAIVER was used.

 

[CGinMN]

I think the data cancer does warrant study, on a large scale, not anecdotally. But I hate to break it to anyone that thinks the GSE policies aren't already responsible for exerting significant influence on market prices throughout the country. GSEs provide so much liquidity to the housing market that if they went away tomorrow interest rates would increase and prices would collapse due to reduced demand. LLPAs, loan limits, cost and access to credit, underwriting guidelines, affordability products, lending stability and liquidity during downturns (such as Covid), the 30 year mortgage (see Canada)…. All of this stuff impacts housing demand, and so what if any impact appraisal waivers have on housing prices is a drop in the bucket compared to these other factors. This is not an endorsement of the above, but it is the reality.

 

[Zoe]

Descrvign it as data cander is an odd term.

However, one can not deny that this is a new phenomenon - lending on purchases on a large scale where as long as it fell within a Secret (who sees it ?) FF AVM range, the value is the sale price 100% in a Waiver. Without disclosure easy to see, such as FHA, cash, etc it is not possible for people to run statistics or judge how much impact they have on market prices.

Call a broker is the answer.....it is problem because that takes tons of time - sift through twenty sales and make 20 phone calls and 20 emails or texts to find out which 4 were WAIVERS? And that assumes the RE agent gets back to you at all, or even knows whether a WAIVER was used.

You know there will be some unhappy homeoowners down the line. Some will put their house on the market for sale and it won't bring what the waiver put on it. I guess they could go after both the agent and the lender and the GSE. If they get upset, their lawyer will likely tell them to sue all 3. Of course on a refi, it would only be the lender and the GSE. Maybe an AMC in there.

Same way if waiver won't work because of value and they go hire a professional appraiser and value comes in higher than the waiver value.

 

[J Grant]

I think the data cancer does warrant study, on a large scale, not anecdotally. But I hate to break it to anyone that thinks the GSE policies aren't already responsible for exerting significant influence on market prices throughout the country. GSEs provide so much liquidity to the housing market that if they went away tomorrow interest rates would increase and prices would collapse due to reduced demand. LLPAs, loan limits, cost and access to credit, underwriting guidelines, affordability products, lending stability and liquidity during downturns (such as Covid), the 30 year mortgage (see Canada)…. All of this stuff impacts housing demand, and so what if any impact appraisal waivers have on housing prices is a drop in the bucket compared to these other factors. This is not an endorsement of the above, but it is the reality.

My point is there is no study possible without easy out front to find disclosure of which sales were financed wit WAIVERS, or which homes refinanced using them -

It is not passable for people doing large same studies to have to manually contact every RE agent on every sale to find out if a WAVER was used.

 

[Zoe]

My point is there is no study possible without easy out front to find disclosure of which sales were financed wit WAIVERS, or which homes refinanced using them -

It is not passable for people doing large same studies to have to manually contact every RE agent on every sale to find out if a WAVER was used.

Well, maybe. But CFPB can literally get their hands on any truth in lending disclosures or any information they want from a GSE or anybody in the consumer lending world.

 

[chad hampton]

Times are decent now. Of course there's not much of a risk management concern when damn near everyone is paying mortgages, etc. But when the market corrects to even a fraction of the problems we had in 2010, then the GSEs will be concerned with all the over valuation and data cancer they have on the books.

Times are decent right now, no one has a concern. Until they do.

I guess I'm old fashioned, I feel having accurate valuations from a professional is important. If I didn't feel that way, I'd have done something else for the last 20+ years. I'll never understand why some folks with appraisal licenses that made a career out of this, think so little of it.

 

[CGinMN]

Yeah, the study probably can’t come from appraisers, it would need to come from the people with an interest in the results, and we already know they cannot be trusted to provide an unbiased observation.

If appraisers want to take down waivers, the path is not “data cancer.” It is pointing out that the GSE waivers are disproportionately granted to whites as opposed to minorities, giving white borrower an unfair bidding advantage in the market and that exacerbates historical disadvantages. Requiring appraisals for all conforming loans would mean that everyone is on equal playing field, eliminating the disparate impact of waivers. FHFA expanded waivers to high LTV loans precisely to benefit minority and low income borrowers, because they know GSE waivers are racist. This whole time the GSEs and FHFA were saying appraisers are racist they were projecting, it was a preemptive strike because they knew what the internal data said.

Appraisers should be focusing on this issue instead of “data cancer.”

 

[Terrel L. Shields]

If appraisers want to take down waivers, the path is not “data cancer.” It is pointing out that the GSE waivers are disproportionately granted to whites as opposed to minorities, giving white borrower an unfair bidding advantage in the market and that exacerbates historical disadvantages.

Hmm... not sure about the wisdom of focusing upon "racism" as an answer to everything. The poor, by definition, are always at a disadvantage.