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decks and rails

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It seems to me that many of the appraisers on here are making a completely subjective judgment regarding the question of whether an 18 inch high deck that lacks a railing is a safety hazard. Unless I am missing something, this judgment is based on no objective data whatsoever. Building codes in most areas do not require a railing unless the deck is at least 30 inches above the surrounding area...since a 18 inch high deck without the railing meets building codes (which is an objective standard) on what basis do those appraisers who say that an 18 inch high deck without a railing is an unacceptable hazard per FHA? Is anyone aware of any studies which show that an 18 inch high deck is an unacceptable hazard? Exactly at what point does the height of a deck become a safety hazard? Is 17 inches too high?, what about 16 inches?, or 15 inches?, or 14 inches?, or 13 inches?, or 12 inches?, or 11 inches?, or 10 inches?, or 9 inches?, or 8 inches?, or 7 inches?, or 6 inches?... Please, can someone tell me exactly at what height is a deck without a railing an unacceptable safety hazard for the FHA.

It is my contention that, in the absence of any specific FHA guideline or objective data showing otherwise, that any improvements that are in good repair and meet the applicable current building codes do not constitute an unacceptable safety hazard for an FHA property.
 
Check local code

cridgely01 said:
Does FHA have a guideline for decks needing rails...My property has a rear wooden deck without rails..its 18 inches off the ground. Is this a safety issue....?:shrug:
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Most building codes do not require a railing for decks under 24" high. (I've never seen any less than that.) Check your local code, but I would think this is a non-issue.
Mike Boyd said:
All the ones I am familiar with say 30" or higher from grade need a rail as CBBoston describes. BUT, I agree with Mike G and Cridgley that it could be considered a safety hazard at 18" with no barrier. I would require some kind of barrier in order to minimize any accidents. Let the underwriter eliminate it if he/she wants to.
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Anything could be a safety hazard. Calling for unnecessary repairs is not a good way to build a good reputation with HUD.
CBBoston said:
And the spindles can't be more than 4 inches apart or form a ladder. i.e. they must be horizontal. But check your local regs to be sure.
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The gap in between is typically set at a minimum of three and a half inches, but your code may be different.
 
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cridgely01 said:
Does FHA have a guideline for decks needing rails...My property has a rear wooden deck without rails..its 18 inches off the ground. Is this a safety issue....?:shrug:
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It must be THREE steps off the ground (Whatever height that is) .Two steps and it's OK to fall off.Trust me I have had many conversation over this one...
 
HUD Mortgagee letter 2005-48 may help you

http://www.HUD.gov/offices/adm/hudclips/letters/mortgagee/05-48ml.pdf
 
Couch.....common sense. Sure, a refrigerator could be considered a safety hazard as a kid might "accidently" lock him/her self inside. But, that seems far fetched compared to that same kid in a stroller rolling off the edge of a deck 18" off the ground onto a outcropping of rock.
 
I think the standard 10 years ago was 30", and the width between 4" (width of a babies head). Handrails required. It was not about a drunk stepping off an 18" deck but a baby or elderly falling. that was in the old FHA manual.
 
Mike Boyd said:
Couch.....common sense. Sure, a refrigerator could be considered a safety hazard as a kid might "accidently" lock him/her self inside. But, that seems far fetched compared to that same kid in a stroller rolling off the edge of a deck 18" off the ground onto a outcropping of rock.
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I don't recall the original post saying anything about rocks or anything like that.....but I guess if there is a large outcropping of rocks anywhere in the yard, maybe you should also condition the appraisal on the removal of the rocks, since falling onto rocks from ground level would be also be a safety hazard.

:rof::rof::rof:
 
Common Nonsense.

Mike Boyd said:
Couch.....common sense. Sure, a refrigerator could be considered a safety hazard as a kid might "accidently" lock him/her self inside. But, that seems far fetched compared to that same kid in a stroller rolling off the edge of a deck 18" off the ground onto a outcropping of rock.
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Mike, every building code in the country says a railing is not necessary for a deck 18" high. Any appraiser that requires one to be installed is likely guilty of violating the Competency Rule in USPAP. If it was my loan being held up such such an inane requirement, I would certainly file a complaint with the local appraisal board and HUD. If it cost me money due to the delay in processing, I would likely sue them as well.

Appraisers do not get to set building code requirements based on their personal opinion.
 
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