decks and rails

[Mr Rex]

What about a refrigerator on a 18 inch high deck with no rails? Surely if it falls off and on top of a small child .....

 

[Mike Boyd]

Please, can someone tell me exactly at what height is a deck without a railing an unacceptable safety hazard for the FHA.

It is my contention that, in the absence of any specific FHA guideline or objective data showing otherwise, that any improvements that are in good repair and meet the applicable current building codes do not constitute an unacceptable safety hazard for an FHA property.

30" above grade is the MAXIMUM height for a deck with no rail. I will often make subjective requirements based on common sense. For FHA loans, the underwriter has the option to negate those. I'm not saying you must construct a to code rail, but that a barrier of some type would be a good idea and might prevent a serious accident to a child or senior citizen. A court of law may not recognize minimum standards. If someone is injured by an 18" fall then it is obvious that 18" step was a safety hazard.

 

[Mr Rex]

Mr B,

If someone adds a rail to a deck today because of a safety issue, it better meet current codes, which includes a minimum handrail height and pickets spaced close enough together that a 6 inch ball cannot pass through. The 6 inch ball is meant to be a stand in for a baby's soft head (really) to prevent strangulation deaths of infants sticking their heads between the pickets. Want to talk lawsuit, make someone put up a halfassed rail on a deck 18 inches off the ground and a kid dies:Eyecrazy:

 

[Mike Boyd]

What about a refrigerator on a 18 inch high deck with no rails? Surely if it falls off and on top of a small child .....

Refrigerators MUST be placed at least 12 inches from the edge of the deck. Same with washers, and beer kegs. That refrigerator might be full of aged hog jowells, corn pone, grits and other delicasies. If the washer fell, that laundry tub it would probably get dented and the beer keg....welll, we ALL know what a waste THAT would be!

By the way, what IS corn pone? I know it is something indigenous to those areas south of the Mason Dixon line------I suspect it is adult beverage limited to people over age 11....but that's just a guess.

 

[Mr Rex]

Corn pone is a kinda dense cornbread cooked in a cast iron skillet typically, goes quite well with collards or turnip salad. Some folks eat it with fish instead of hushpuppies.

 

[Hamlet]

Didn't corn pone originate during the Civil War?

 

[Mike Boyd]

Didn't corn pone originate during the Civil War?

Sorry, Donna. I'm old but not THAT old. Maybe Mike Garrett knows.

 

[timd354]

30" above grade is the MAXIMUM height for a deck with no rail. I will often make subjective requirements based on common sense. But what if the appraiser has no common sense and who is the appraiser to substitute his judgment for that of the building inspector and the construction experts and engineers who drafted the applicable building codes, which, presumably are based on objective requirements.
For FHA loans, the underwriter has the option to negate those. I'm not saying you must construct a to code rail
You are saying that a rail not built to code, which then would likely be a safety hazard by itself, is a good idea to "fix" a problem that meets the existing building code......that really does not make any sense at all.

but that a barrier of some type would be a good idea and might prevent a serious accident to a child or senior citizen. Just because you think something is a good idea, does not mean that the risk involved is an unacceptable safety hazard per HUD.

A court of law may not recognize minimum standards. So what? FHA/HUD guidelines explicitly instruct the appraiser not to condition properties as an attempt to limit liability....aside from that, there is zero real chance of a court holding an appraiser liable for not requiring items which are in excess of meeting the applicable building code.....we are not home inspectors or code inspectors.

If someone is injured by an 18" fall then it is obvious that 18" step was a safety hazard. What a ridiculous statement.....using this logic, anytime someone trips over his own 2 feet and falls and injures him, then that is proof that his own feet and gravity are unacceptable safety hazards. I guess you should condition all FHA appraisals upon the suspension of the laws of physics and/or the amputation of the feet of all occupants of the property.

Please don't be surprised if lenders do not send you any business and lenders and homeowners file complaints with the FHA about you if you are just going to make up your own subjective property standards and condition your appraisals on these subjective standards.

If you contend that what you are doing is not subjective, then I challenge you to give me an objective answer as to exactly at what height does a deck without rails, that meets current building codes, become an unacceptable safety hazard....is it 6 inches, 9 inches, 12 inches, 15 inches, 18 inches....I am guessing that you will not provide an answer since you cannot give me an objective answer that is not just pulled from thin air.

 

[Mr Rex]

Down boy, his name isn't Brad.

 

[Couch Potato]

Down boy, his name isn't Brad.

But the last name is not far from it.