Desktop appraisals officially rolling out

[alebrewer]

Wrt economics and S/D, when other fields pay better, a field that pays worse is left with inferior people or people who cut corners to get it done cheap. I can not fathom why you think that it is a good idea for res lending valuation work, since large sums of money are at stake and many people's biggest asset and investment is their home. Valuation whether on inspection end or appraisal end. Just a bunch of spin to keep AMC;s getting part of fee as an entitlement. Let the AMC charge their lender customer for it the way other businesses compete. The fee split to AMC off appraisers and appraisals is a govt sponsored entitlement which as an anti Marxists strange to see you supporting.

I don't understand most of this... however - in general - I try to stay away from relative words like 'inferior', 'well', etc. They're not quantifiable, thus really don't serve a purpose in a logical debate. To put your sentence in terms that I'd agree with - when one profession commands higher wages relative to another, that is the market saying that the higher wage profession is more important to the market, and in some cases, the lower wage profession goes away all together, as the market no longer demands that good or service - think about film developing stores back in the '90's. As to your second point (at least what I can glean), I believe the purchasers of mortgages should perform the diligence they feel necessary to mitigate whatever risk they feel needs to be mitigated - if that means no appraisal, then that's their decision - not the appraisers'. To your third rant - I have no interest in AMC's getting anything. I don't work for an AMC, nor am I associated with one in any way. My life would be more challenging if AMC's went away, but I'd adapt. To your fourth rant - I think we're all aware of your position on 'bundled fees'. Keep preaching, though.

 

[J Grant]

I don't understand most of this... however - in general - I try to stay away from relative words like 'inferior', 'well', etc. They're not quantifiable, thus really don't serve a purpose in a logical debate. To put your sentence in terms that I'd agree with - when one profession commands higher wages relative to another, that is the market saying that the higher wage profession is more important to the market, and in some cases, the lower wage profession goes away all together, as the market no longer demands that good or service - think about film developing stores back in the '90's. As to your second point (at least what I can glean), I believe the purchasers of mortgages should perform the diligence they feel necessary to mitigate whatever risk they feel needs to be mitigated - if that means no appraisal, then that's their decision - not the appraisers'. To your third rant - I have no interest in AMC's getting anything. I don't work for an AMC, nor am I associated with one in any way. My life would be more challenging if AMC's went away, but I'd adapt. To your fourth rant - I think we're all aware of your position on 'bundled fees'. Keep preaching, though.

Bundled fees is Marxist style govt entitlement to AMC's so your protectionist stance toward them is odd. AMC's do not have to go away , the lenders could pay them as a cost, if they want to pass that cost on to borrower go for it. Just remove compensating the AMC out of an appraisal fee appraisal split, let an AMC compete the way other private business do- charge a customer for their service.

My point was that professionals in the mortgage lending business on valuation side should not receive crappy pay because result is higher quality, competent people look elsewhere to work and invites people who do accept low pay taking short cuts - why you think that is a good thing in a field where hundreds of billions are loaned and the valuation side impacts markets and individuals remains a mystery

 

[ucbruin]

@J Grant

I'm not asking you to change your mind/opinion/position/etc....
As none of us every change that....

But I'd appreciate your opinion....
Would you consider $500/Desktop a fair fee....

 

[J Grant]

@J Grant

I'm not asking you to change your mind/opinion/position/etc....
As none of us every change that....

But I'd appreciate your opinion....
Would you consider $500/Desktop a fair fee....

yes it is a fair fee.

Let me ask you a question , on what planet do you think they would pay a $500 desktop fee when a full inspection appraisal is $500, why order a desktop then?
My opinions on fees are not the same as opinions on reliability and credibility of data and issues around no inspection but thanks for asking !

 

[ramrcdk]

@J Grant

I'm not asking you to change your mind/opinion/position/etc....
As none of us every change that....

But I'd appreciate your opinion....
Would you consider $500/Desktop a fair fee....

Hahahahaaaa
not directed for my response
BUT my 2 cents: the "traditional report form base fee for a NON-complex assignment + $150 for my time of the interior floor-plan & CYA.
COMPLEX-ish: ++$175 and upwards, quote basis only.

AS THESE roll out: WE ALL must STAY FIRM, start HIGHER or we r bending further & further-over.
POINT: as was said: WE ALL have to FIRST agree to even DO THEM.
***5 years with an unknown amount of those years being...the Test Rats.

 

[glenn walker]

@J Grant

I'm not asking you to change your mind/opinion/position/etc....
As none of us every change that....

But I'd appreciate your opinion....
Would you consider $500/Desktop a fair fee....

yes it is a fair fee.

Let me ask you a question , on what planet do you think they would pay a $500 desktop fee when a full inspection appraisal is $500, why order a desktop then?
My opinions on fees are not the same as opinions on reliability and credibility of data and issues around no inspection but thanks for asking !

Grant no offense but its all about the fees collected. All this talk about reliability and credibility is non-sense as you are only responsible for what information and data you have. The fact is you actually have less liability by not inspecting a property

Hahahahaaaa
not directed for my response
BUT my 2 cents: the "traditional report form base fee for a NON-complex assignment + $150 for my time of the interior floor-plan & CYA.
COMPLEX-ish: ++$175 and upwards, quote basis only.

AS THESE roll out: WE ALL must start HIGHER or we r bending-over. POINT: as was said: WE ALL have to FIRST agree to even DO THEM.

They have spent a lot of time on this and the Covid-19 desktop was a test model and due to the pandemic appraisers were able to charge full fees or even higher as demand exceeded apparsier supply. In my area market is slowing down dramatically and many are driving further distances and getting a lot of POS type properties and working twice as hard on these bad boys. The other thousands of appraisers are willing to take less money as the Pandemic Panic on fees is about therefore this is a perfect time to start to slowly roll these out into the markets especially dense Urban and Suburban areas.

Initially they may be willing to pay full fee as you all are the Beta Testers and at least 12 to 18 months to get all the new Measuring companies on line and into the loop with the Realtors and lenders. The truth is a you using 3D technology and professional camera will be able to do these for $150 bucks a pop as package and the appraiser in most cases will receive way better sketch and floor plan than we draw, Also less liability as you cannot report what you have never seen.

The whole purpose is to get appraisers away from inside homes because they slow down the process by mentioning things the lenders dont care about. The appraisers will say but what about quality Blah, Blah, Blah but its all BS as its all about the fees $$ they collect. My guess is this will end up as a $300.00 product when its finally has all the bugs worked out and appraisers AMCs and Lenders will build a data bank of appraisers who will do them all day long and many of them were still charging $350.00 for a full 1004 before the pandemic hit. Never underestimate how much time and money Fannie and Big Banks have invested in this and they now understand they never want to be held hostage in pandemics or in high sale and refinance markets again by appraisers .

 

[alebrewer]

Bundled fees is Marxist style govt entitlement to AMC's

Marxist how? The way the fees are split today are not mandated by government? In fact, it seems to me that the current 'bundled fee' (as you call it) arrangement is very closely correlated to the old fee shop split. Yet I don't hear you crying about appraisal offices who do fee splits in a similar way

why you think that is a good thing in a field where hundreds of billions are loaned and the valuation side impacts markets and individuals remains a mystery

At the end of the day, it doesn't matter what I think. What matters is what level of diligence purchasers of loans feel requisite to offset/mitigate any perceived risk.

 

[ramrcdk]

Grant no offense but its all about the fees collected. All this talk about reliability and credibility is non-sense as you are only responsible for what information and data you have. The fact is you actually have less liability by not inspecting a property

They have spent a lot of time on this and the Covid-19 desktop was a test model and due to the pandemic appraisers were able to charge full fees or even higher as demand exceeded apparsier supply. In my area market is slowing down dramatically and many are driving further distances and getting a lot of POS type properties and working twice as hard on these bad boys. The other thousands of appraisers are willing to take less money as the Pandemic Panic on fees is about therefore this is a perfect time to start to slowly roll these out into the markets especially dense Urban and Suburban areas.

Initially they may be willing to pay full fee as you all are the Beta Testers and at least 12 to 18 months to get all the new Measuring companies on line and into the loop with the Realtors and lenders. The truth is a you using 3D technology and professional camera will be able to do these for $150 bucks a pop as package and the appraiser in most cases will receive way better sketch and floor plan than we draw, Also less liability as you cannot report what you have never seen.

The whole purpose is to get appraisers away from inside homes because they slow down the process by mentioning things the lenders dont care about. The appraisers will say but what about quality Blah, Blah, Blah but its all BS as its all about the fees $$ they collect. My guess is this will end up as a $300.00 product when its finally has all the bugs worked out and appraisers AMCs and Lenders will build a data bank of appraisers who will do them all day long and many of them were still charging $350.00 for a full 1004 before the pandemic hit. Never underestimate how much time and money Fannie and Big Banks have invested in this and they now understand they never want to be held hostage in pandemics or in high sale and refinance markets again by appraisers .

GLENN
ALL true and WELL said.

and why I posted : standing firm
Example: $350 minus $150 = $150 for total hours of report input & Signature Costs (cost of doing business) = Can't Pay the Bills
Ultimately & Sad: the Fee they will-offer FOR their instructions & our liability equals : Force-Feeding A FEE (nothing new).

Same-Old-Circle: if you want to work at all ...you WILL work longer & harder for LESS INCOME.
Gravy then becomes the Traditional Appraisal Order. As you said: Never Underestimate...they have it ALL figured out.

Ironic: when a new Client requires a FEE SCHEDULE to be in your approval -documents knowing full well it's a JOKE.
Equals: in requirements of Fair & Appraiser Independence: they ask & they have it in their file somewhere which then equals "they can do anything they want", right?

 

[ucbruin]

yes it is a fair fee.

Let me ask you a question , on what planet do you think they would pay a $500 desktop fee when a full inspection appraisal is $500, why order a desktop then?
My opinions on fees are not the same as opinions on reliability and credibility of data and issues around no inspection but thanks for asking !

On Planet Covid....

As I am a life long and founding member of the "glass is half empty" club when it comes to appraisal fees....
I always expect fees to drop for any and all reasons....
And I was pleasantly surprised that Desktop fees averaged $500 per assignment....
And I won't be shocked if and when Desktop fees drop....

BTW....
I was just asking about fees....
But thanks for sharing....

 

[glenn walker]

Marxist how? The way the fees are split today are not mandated by government? In fact, it seems to me that the current 'bundled fee' (as you call it) arrangement is very closely correlated to the old fee shop split. Yet I don't hear you crying about appraisal offices who do fee splits in a similar way

At the end of the day, it doesn't matter what I think. What matters is what level of diligence purchasers of loans feel requisite to offset/mitigate any perceived risk.

When your off loading your junk into the Federal Govt or their agency -sinking funds it really doesn't matter about quailty and they designed and implemented it so they can own it-too