FANNIE bonds with AMCs, over your dead low paid body.

[J Grant]

We've been through this 100x. I favor mandatory disclosure if for no other reason that to shut the critics up on that issue.

I just don't expect that to result in higher fees being paid to the appraiser. I give that maybe a 10% chance of occurring.

I foresee the distinct possibility of the disclosures looking like this.

$300 - AMCs end​

$350 - Appraiser's end​

-------​

$650 - All appraisal related costs​

​

----------------
Then if - as you predict - the borrowers do get mad about the AMC getting paid that much then this is the next logical step

$100 - AMCs end​

$350 - Appraiser's end​

-------​

$450 - All appraisal related costs. Hooray, the borrower wins.​

or next logical step, since the consumers are fine with the $650 for the appraisal ( stop calling it appraisal related costs )

$100 AMC end -$550 the appraiser

I favor mandatory disclosure but am not a big advocate for it the way Zoe is.

I adovcate for the lender to pay the AMC a cost for the AMC service ( whatever that is ) and the appraisal fee is for the appraiser who does the appraisal. Perhaps the lender can pass the AMC cost on to the borrower as a disclosed cost, perhaps not - idk.

 

[djd09]

TAF and USPAP can't jump fast enough to issue revisions and convoluted explanations that help out the breakfast club. But their hands are tied when it comes to public trust.

taf are now partners with revaa...and crn...but not us...USPAP bro that

 

[George Hatch]

TAF and USPAP can't jump fast enough to issue revisions and convoluted explanations that help out the breakfast club. But their hands are tied when it comes to public trust.

Aside from PAREA - which at present only benefits one of the appraisal orgs - nothing has changed at the ASB or the AQB that benefits the AMCs in any way. Ever. We don't even know yet if PAREA will turn out to the benefit of the AMCs.

The only thing an explanation or elaboration on an existing requirement can do is ... explain and elaborate. Not 'create'

 

[Sandra Koutsopoulos]

No problemo

$20 - AMCs end
$350 - Appraiser's end
-------
$370 - All appraisal related costs. Hooray, the borrower wins even harder.

You guys let me know what you think it would take for the AMCs to run into the scenario where they wouldn't still be able to run the line on you that "if you won't do it for $350 then we'll just go find someone else who will".

I think AMCs already do that.

 

[George Hatch]

or next logical step, since the consumers are fine with the $650 for the appraisal ( stop calling it appraisal related costs )

$100 AMC end -$550 the appraiser

I favor mandatory disclosure but am not a big advocate for it the way Zoe is.

I adovcate for the lender to pay the AMC a cost for the AMC service ( whatever that is ) and the appraisal fee is for the appraiser who does the appraisal. Perhaps the lender can pass the AMC cost on to the borrower as a disclosed cost, perhaps not - idk.

You're the one who seems to think that the current practice of calling the combination "the appraisal fee" guarantees that when they're split the appraiser will get the entirety of that current total. Same as the notion that if the fees are split in the disclosures then the lenders and their AMCs will have no motivation or reason to shop by fee. IMO those are assumptions which - based on the past behavior between *these lenders and AMCs* - are not in evidence.

I might end up being way wrong about it, but I think the reliance on the label instead of the actions will lead to a grave disappointment when the labels change to more accurately reflect the actions.

 

[J Grant]

AI-How AMCs Generate and Distribute Profit:

• Significant Fee Splitting: AMCs frequently keep 30–70% of the total appraisal fee, passing only the remainder to the appraiser. In extreme cases, AMCs have been alleged to retain up to 84% of the fee.
• Reduced Payouts to Appraisers: AMCs often pressure appraisers to accept lower fees to maximize the AMC's profit margin.
• "Hidden" Profits and Tech Fees: Beyond the fee split, AMCs may charge appraisers additional fees (e.g., "$19.99–$69.99 per month" or "technology fees") just to remain on their panel and receive work.
• Data Monetization: AMCs often include clauses in agreements that allow them to take ownership of appraisal data, which they may sell or use to create valuation tools.
  Real Estate Appraisals Austin +6

Relationship to Lenders:
While direct bribery is illegal, the AMC model allows lenders to outsource the appraisal process while complying with appraiser independence regulations. The profit generated by AMCs primarily stems from the difference between what they charge the consumer and what they pay the appraiser, creating a profitable intermediary business.
HousingWire +4
However, this, along with the lack of transparency in how the fee is split, has led to increased investigation by law firms and consumer advocates regarding potential misconduct and whether these practices violate regulations aimed at protecting consumers.
Note Servicing Center +1

 

[George Hatch]

[slow clap for the obvious] This is how AMCs operate. Your AI-Vomitron just summarized an excellent rebuttal to an argument that nobody ever made.

 

[J Grant]

You're the one who seems to think that the current practice of calling the combination "the appraisal fee" guarantees that when they're split the appraiser will get the entirety of that current total. Same as the notion that if the fees are split in the disclosures then the lenders and their AMCs will have no motivation or reason to shop by fee. IMO those are assumptions which - based on the past behavior between *these lenders and AMCs* - are not in evidence.

I might end up being way wrong about it, but I think the reliance on the label instead of the actions will lead to a grave disappointment when the labels change to more accurately reflect the actions.

It is incredible to me that you do not understand that elimating the fee split means NO MORE FEE SPLIT to the AMC - if there is no more fee split, then why what motivation does an AMC have to shop by appraisal fee? The AMC could not keep a dime from choosing a cheaper appraiser. This references my preference for eliminating the fee split and having the lender pay a hard cost for AMC service

I did a quick look up on AI and posted it above. _ mainstream AI nails it - the secret is out, and imo the cascade of lawsuits around this is just beginning. It won't affect my bottom line since most of my work does not involve AMC's. I just hate what has happened to the business because of it.

 

[George Hatch]

It is incredible to me that you do not understand that elimating the fee split means NO MORE FEE SPLIT to the AMC - if there is no more fee split, then why what motivation does an AMC have to shop by appraisal fee? The AMC could not keep a dime from choosing a cheaper appraiser. This references my preference for eliminating the fee split and having the lender pay a hard cost for AMC service

I did a quick look up on AI and posted it above. _ mainstream AI nails it - the secret is out, and imo the cascade of lawsuits around this is just beginning. It won't affect my bottom line since most of my work does not involve AMC's. I just hate what has happened to the business because of it.

Have you bothered to ask the current/former AMC types about your assumptions? That they're going to stop shopping by fee if their end gets arbitrarily capped? That the ONLY reason they shop by fee is because they get the residuals of what's left over after they ground the appraiser's end into the dirt? That client retention by delivering the lowest cost is not part of their calculations?

Think it through. Both hypothetical AMCs below get paid the same AMC fee (let's call it $20), but there's a difference in their deliverables

$350 - ACME AMCs payout to appraisers​

$300 - Road Runner AMCs payout to appraisers​

If both are competing for the same lender's business, which do you think will end up winning the contract? Which do you think the avg AMC-using lender will prefer?

This is not a trick question. You know the answer and so does everyone else.

 

[J Grant]

Have you bothered to ask the current/former AMC types about your assumptions? That they're going to stop shopping by fee if their end gets arbitrarily capped? That the ONLY reason they shop by fee is because they get the residuals of what's left over after they ground the appraiser's end into the dirt?

Why would I ask an AMC that and why would they answer me?

But follow the logic - an AMC does not make a dime more by hiring an appraiser who charges $300 vs hiring an appraiser who charges $500. The lender paid the AMC the same $75 an order, regardless ( $75 ia an example, the lenders are cheap when it is their money)
.
It is likely they would instruct the AMC to pay all the appraisers the same flat fee of X$ (regional C and R ) to keep things simple. Lenders charge borrowers a same C and R fee for regular orders in a region because lenders sell loans, not appraisals.