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Global Economy Bursting?

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College: Big Investment, Paltry Return

http://finance.yahoo.com/college-education/article/109946/college-big-investment-paltry-return

The value of a college degree is a middle-class article of faith. But exclusive new research suggests it may be far less than previously thought.

New research suggests that the monetary value of a college degree may be vastly overblown. According to a study conducted by PayScale for Bloomberg Businessweek, the value of a college degree may be a lot closer to $400,000 over 30 years and varies wildly from school to school. According to the PayScale study, the number of schools that actually make good on the estimates of the earlier research is vanishingly small. There are only 17 schools in the study whose graduates can expect to recoup the cost of their education and out-earn a high school graduate by $1.2 million, including four where they can do so to the tune of $1.6 million. At more than 500 other schools, the return on investment, or ROI, is less—sometimes far less. College, says Al Lee, director of quantitative analysis at PayScale, "is not the million-dollar slam dunk people talk about."

The top of the list was dominated by elite private universities, with the Massachusetts Institute of Technology taking the top spot. Its net 30-year ROI of nearly $1.7 million makes it the most valuable undergraduate degree in the nation.

The next best education bargain was California Institute of Technology in Pasadena, Calif., where students out-earned high school grads by about $1.6 million, followed by Harvard University in Cambridge, Mass.; Harvey Mudd College in Claremont, Calif.; and Dartmouth College in Hanover, N.H.

One big conclusion that can be drawn from the PayScale data is that college—and college alone—may not be the great investment it was once thought to be. Richard Vedder, director of the Center for College Affordability & Productivity in Washington, D.C., notes that with the college-educated accounting for a larger percentage of Americans, the bachelor's degree has been devalued, and its ROI has taken a hit. "We have credential inflation in America. A college degree has become mundane and ordinary," Vedder said. "We used to send kids to college to become lawyers and doctors. Now we send them to college to work at Walmart."

A. Jordan, who graduated with a degree in political science from the University of North Carolina in Wilmington in 2008, knows about the devaluing of the college degree all too well.

As a stewardess in the private yachting industry with nothing but a high school diploma, she says she earned triple what she's making now in her administrative support job in Winston-Salem. She's making so little money with a college degree, she's considering returning to school for her master's. "Philosophy, political science, and other degrees of that nature are not giving you concrete skills," Jordan wrote in an e-mail. She declined to use her full name, citing possible career repercussions.

For many, the very notion of a financial return on investment misses the point of higher education entirely. Scott Jaschik, editor of Inside Higher Ed, a website that covers news of colleges and universities, says the return on a liberal arts education goes well beyond dollars and cents, and students who major in liberal arts aren't in it for the money. "People who major in history tend to think, 'I'd like to get a well-rounded education that will help me in many fields,'" says Jaschik, a history major himself. "I don't think philosophy and poetry majors are there because it's going to make them rich."

Maybe not, but most students expect, if not riches, then at least a comfortable life. And according to PayScale's Lee, if they're enrolled at many of the schools on the list, they will be bitterly disappointed. Over the past 30 years, the S&P 500 Index averaged about 11 percent a year. Only 88 schools out of the 554 in the study had a better return than the S&P. Everywhere else, students would have been better off—financially, at least—if they invested the money they spent on their college educations and never set foot in a classroom.

"For almost every school on the list," writes Lee in an e-mail, "prospective students paying full price would probably have been better off investing in the stock market 30 years ago rather than spending their money on a college education."
 
. Jordan, who graduated with a degree in political science .. knows about the devaluing of the college degree all too well....As a stewardess in the private yachting industry ... she earned triple what she's making now in her administrative support job ... She's making so little money with a college degree, she's considering returning to school for her master's.
:rof: Isn't that a little like the Moron Trucking Company? They bought melons for $1 and sold them for $1 and after a month decided they weren't making money so they bought a bigger truck...
 
:rof: Isn't that a little like the Moron Trucking Company? They bought melons for $1 and sold them for $1 and after a month decided they weren't making money so they bought a bigger truck...

Yes, that is a good analogy. However, the problem was her degree selection. It should have been in engineering (bio, chemical, electrical) where there is demand and good pay.

She could be a waitress is a upscale restaurant and make 2x to 4x what she is making in her administrative support job.

But she will likely get a masters degree in Sociology with emphasis on why women make less than men. :new_all_coholic:
 
she could be a waitress is a upscale restaurant and make 2x to 4x what she is making in her administrative support job.
nothing new. When I worked in OKC back about 1980, I got acquainted with a waitress in a restaurant called the "Bull & Bear" whom had been an oil company executive secretary...not bad money by most standards. But as a waitress she was knocking down $200+ a day (at a time when a geologist like me was making $100 a day on wages..) in tips. She worked from 11 am to 3 pm M-F. The clientele was mostly sales people taking clients to lunch or executives - big tippers comparatively speaking.

STEM - Science, Technology, Engineering, Math - that's where you want a degree. There are issues however. Our education system is geared to servicing foreigners who pay better tuition than us gentiles (residents.) The result is that a lot of English (or even Hispanic) speaking students get thrown into a calculus or chemistry class with Awad El-Wienie, MS candidate, as their instructor who A - does not suffer fools gladly; B - cannot speak clearly; and, C - favors other non-American students.

The worst classes I had in college, even back then in the 1970s was a Pakistani who could not speak a sentence clearly, teaching Physics and an Indian with a heavy English accent teaching computer science. Many many students quit and switch to an easier major over the issue in fear that if they don't pick up some "easy" hours they would flunk out anyway. For scholarship students it is even more important to "perform". It is much much worse today. I bet you cannot find a college in America where the math and sciences are not either a large minority or even a majority foreign-dominated teachers. MS and Phd candidates are the 'teacher of choice' in colleges today because they work cheap and are motivated to advance their own careers. It oft comes at the expense of the average student. Any student who has lived a sheltered Midwestern life among folks who speak plain language and who are not adapt at foreign languages will usually find themselves struggling to understand their instructors.
 
STEM - Science, Technology, Engineering, Math - that's where you want a degree. There are issues however. Our education system is geared to servicing foreigners who pay better tuition than us gentiles (residents.) The result is that a lot of English (or even Hispanic) speaking students get thrown into a calculus or chemistry class with Awad El-Wienie, MS candidate, as their instructor who A - does not suffer fools gladly; B - cannot speak clearly; and, C - favors other non-American students.

Bingo!! You just described my freshman Chemistry 101 professor. He was an Iranian, and this was 1982. Let's just say there were political tension overtones throughout the class. He didn't teach. He stood at the front of the room and spoke/spit in a very heavy accent as he recited the text book. He wrote bits and pieces of it on the chalk board for show, but didn't expand whatsoever on any of the principles.

Geez, buddy! Why am I paying you to teach me? I could stay in my dorm room and read the bloody book. I tested my then developing theory and after class asked him to expand a bit on one of the concepts I was wrestling with at the time. I think it was chemical equations. Still hate 'em. What was his response? 'I don't have time to discuss this with you. Go ask your T.A.' (the graduate student assigned to head up our Lab course). Not, 'I don't have time right now. Could you make an appointment with me.' I wiped his spit off my book and arm, and stormed out of class.

The jerk wasn't there to do his job. He was there for his government funded research projects, and taught because he HAD to. I re-took the course the following semester to fix the 'D' and turn it into a 'B' and was actually taught by a colorful old geezer who absolutely loved his job. Not only was my first semester tuition and time wasted, I had to spend the same amount again, take a no credit course simply to gain the concepts and repair my GPA.

That isn't the end of the story. (sorry!) We're at a state funded, land grant college. I'm a white female from a barely making it middle class family. My parents made too much for financial aid, but it was still very tight for them. I sought a chemistry tutor that first semester, but the costs were too much, so I tried in vain to tough it out. Next semester I get a new roommate. Lovely girl from Santa Fe and her parents were pretty well off. Sent her down there with her own book of checks tied to their account. She wasn't crazy with them, but really wanted for nothing. She got a free tutor for math. ??!! Wha?? Donna, how did you do that? Simple. She was hispanic, and the tutor was free. No financial questions asked. All based on race.
 
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... I think I should have majored in .....

.... cabin and survival management ... instead of finance ...

... my finance degree turned out to be a tragic comedy ...

.... or maybe ....

... ah, who knows ... least of all me ...

... hmm
 
The post office needs reforms "to cut costs and protect taxpayers from an expensive bailout," said Rep. Darrell Issa, R-Calif.

"If we don't heed this warning and act quickly, the Postal Service as we know it will cease to exist in the very near future," said Carper.

"This move underscores the need for Congress to make bold, quick and substantive reforms to the Postal Service. The USPS is hanging by a thread, along with 8 million private sector jobs that depend on the mail," said Art Sackler.

The post office said it has informed the Office of Personnel Management that the $115 million retirement payment made every two weeks will be suspended effective Friday. The action is expected to free about $800 million in the current fiscal year. The post office's Federal Employee Retirement System account currently has a surplus of $6.9 billion, the agency said.

The post office, unlike other federal agencies, is also required to make an annual payment of more than $5 billion as an advance contribution to future retiree medical costs.

Bail out GM - might as well bail out the Post Office and every state, county and city union retirement plan.
 
Futures Keep Falling Off A Cliff Tonight, And There's A Report Of A Brand New Hole In The Greek Austerity Plan

Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/hole-in-greek-austerity-plan-2011-6#ixzz1Q3EI77VI

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