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"Grow Room"?

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I would report the grow operation. These hippies must be stopped. If you don't take action now this hippie will find another hippie and eventually they and a bunch of their hippie friends will be start one of those nudist colonies. Nothing is more non-American than being naked. :Eyecrazy:
 
They are not part of the real estate.

Jim, I understand your point of view. BUT...in the OP's situation, the government can seize the house and the OP knows it. Don't you feel that an appraiser needs to apprise the lender of a situation in which the lender can lose the house to the government if the appraiser is aware of it?

It is an illegal situation as far as the Federal Government is concerned. If this was an issue of illegal zoning & the house could be seized b/c of illegal zoning, then I'm sure you would disclose the illegal zoning issues?

Jim, your explanation of taxes would be a long drawn out legal battle in which the lender would have time to prepare a legal defense before any seizures would take place. In the OP's situation, the house would be seized immediately forcing the lender to immediately lose money & then fight in a legal battle to get it back.
 
The government can seize your property for burning illegal cd/dvd's:

http://www.northescambia.com/?p=4930

While executing the search warrant, police discovered and seized numerous computer systems and components, DVD and CD burners. In addition of the $152,684 in bootleg DVDs, police also seized $6,075 worth of counterfeit music CDs

Look for the signs of it on your next inspection. Cake boxes of dvd's, multi-colored Sharpie's, multiple empty ink cartridges, empty bags of chips.... It must be stopped.:new_smile-l:

Take the standard kitchen, living room, bath and bedroom pics and leave out the 'other' room. It does not concern you or the bank.
 
Jim, I understand your point of view. BUT...in the OP's situation, the government can seize the house and the OP knows it. Don't you feel that an appraiser needs to apprise the lender of a situation in which the lender can lose the house to the government if the appraiser is aware of it?

I knew a guy from Jamaica. I knew he smoked pot. I knew he flew back and forth from Jamaica to visit family and that he told me once he only smoked Jamaican pot. This man was not a dealer, he bought investment houses, renovated them and rented them out. His dream was to own 100 houses. He got up to about 50 or 60 when coming back from Jamaica customs agents found a small amount of pot on him. I don't know the law, but evidently it doesn't take much if you are importing it from the islands to the states to get a 5 year sentence. All of his houses were seized by the government over what was reported to me to be less than 5 grams.

Knowing he smoked Jamaican pot, knowing he flew back and forth to Jamaica, and knowing it was possible that if caught his real estate could be seized (immediately), is it the appraiser's business to report it to the lender?

If this was an issue of illegal zoning & the house could be seized b/c of illegal zoning, then I'm sure you would disclose the illegal zoning issues?

Zoning is directly related to the property and conformity has a direct effect on value, so it is my concern, potted plants are not.


Jim, your explanation of taxes would be a long drawn out legal battle in which the lender would have time to prepare a legal defense before any seizures would take place. In the OP's situation, the house would be seized immediately forcing the lender to immediately lose money & then fight in a legal battle to get it back.

I don't know what the laws are on paying back the mortgage with the proceeds of a government auction. For all I know the lender would lose more money in the tax situation because the process would be more drawn out. So I really can't comment on that except to say I believe it is immaterial to the valuation process.
 
To All,

This is a tough topic. We can look for answers from the ASB, state boards, USPAP, CE classes, secondary market publications, other appraisal related sources, and they all either have nothing at all, or fall short of answering just one question in a way that clarifies what to do in all situations. Leaving the door wide open for personal politics to be used to cloud the issues regarding the duties of a real estate appraiser. Then what duties? The duties we all have in any situation as a member of the trade? The duties to our clients? The duties we might have to intended users of our reports? All things that have to be considered when we find illegal activities taking place on land we are asked to appraise. Perhaps we are in a position of not being able to determine if the activity is illegal or not, but we think it may be. The one question......What do we do?

I see in this thread that one answer is we use our personal politics to decide if we look the other way or report our findings. Another answer is we attempt to determine if the illegal activity is, or has a potential to, harming the land or improvements or expose them to governmental seizure by police powers, as a method to decide if we report our findings or not. Are we making this more complex than it really is? Perhaps the only question that matters is what parts of our findings, the things we observe during a viewing phase of our assignments, do we not disclose under the ethical obligations on those who serve in this capacity? How many participating in this thread recognize those underlined words and know where they came from?

We have an obligation to disclose good things, do we not? We have an obligation to disclose things that might not be good. Where does our obligations allow us to bias our disclosures, or lack of them, based on our own personal political views of any certain topic or any certain laws that govern our society?

Perhaps our own trade's codes of conduct just have not had the time to mature since state licensing and all went into affect around 1991. After all, that is only seventeen years or so. We are only children compared to the codes of conduct of related real estate trades. Why don't we look towards the Code of Ethics And Standards of Practice of the National Association of Realtors[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]©[/FONT] as our own seems to have failed to clarify this for us? It does have over a one hundred year head start on us and might guide us on all of this. What in that Code might apply?

While the Code of Ethics establishes obligations that may be higher than those mandated by law, in any instance where the Code of Ethics and the law conflict, the obligations of the law must take precedence.

That's a good one! .... Do we have something similar?

Such interests impose obligations beyond those of ordinary commerce. They impose grave social responsibility and a patriotic duty to which Realtors[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]©[/FONT] should dedicate themselves, and for which they should be diligent in preparing themselves.

Gosh, what a mouthful that was! ... Too bad we did not include words just like that seventeen years ago or more in ours.

They identify and take steps, through enforcement of this Code of Ethics and by assisting appropriate regulatory bodies, to eliminate practices which may damage the public or which might discredit or bring dishonor to the real estate profession.

How it is our very own Preamble failed to contain such words is a travesty for us all. I personally would like to suggest the ASB try reading this other Code and asking if they can borrow some of it for ours! It is never too late.

Article 2: Realtors[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]©[/FONT] shall avoid exaggeration, misrepresentation, or concealment of pertinent facts relating to the property or the transaction.

Standard of Practice 2-1: Realtors[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]©[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif] shall only be obligated to discover and disclose adverse factors reasonably apparent to someone with expertise in those areas required by their real estate licensing authority.[/FONT]

Alright then! Do not conceal pertinent facts, be responsible about things that would be reasonably apparent to anyone else working in the trade. That all seems fairly darn clear to me, what about you? Do we have words like those in our Standards? Darn good words if anyone asks me. Perhaps it is past time we all decide the word “omission” belongs somewhere in the Conduct section of our Ethic's Rule, it got left out somehow. ... You know..... Stuff like not accept assignments based on unspoken agreements to omit pertinent facts as well as not to accept them based on predetermined opinions and conclusions? I think we should tighten all that up a bit, don't you?

Compared to a Code that was adopted first in 1913, ours has a long way to go in answering all our questions. Sure is too bad our governing bodies seem intent on reinventing the wheel regarding real estate ethics for our trade. Especially, when so very much can be learned just by consulting those who have gone before us in a related sector of real estate practices.
 
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Personally, I don't even know what a marijuana plant looks like. :cool:

Back before the digital camera age one of my friend's not too bright college student son was growing some weed at his apartment. Someone took some pictures at a party and the local film processor noted the plants, made copies of the photos, and took them to the police. Luckily, by the time the police responded, some hop head had stolen the plants.

I probably wouldn't report it, child abuse, meth lab, another story. But weed just seems so harmless, dude.

TC
 
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That doesn't answer much, Duck. The question is "What is a pertinent fact"? And the answer might be to one group "That it could lead to government seizure is pertinent" and to the other "That it has a direct affect on value of the real property" is the main threshold of being pertinent in a valuation.

This isn't personal politics. I am not one for freeing the marijuana, or for keeping it illegal. Frankly, it is not an issue I care about one way or the other, I am quite indifferent on the topic.

But from a professional point of view, I simply am not a expert on chemicals to be able to identify a "meth house" with authority on my word alone; nor am I a botanist where my word on a plant will stand up against a non-expert's word due to my education. I am an appraiser. I know what affects value and what doesn't. If I smell chemicals, I will note it, but I will not identify what chemicals they are, that's not my department. If I see a grow room, I will note it, but I will not identify what is being grown there. If a room is being used as an aviary (relatively common by me), I will note it but I will not note the type of bird, even though some types of birds held in capitivity without a permit would be illegal and it could be a federal crime that they have them. I am simply not qualified as an ornithologist. What is pertinent to me are those items that have a direct influence on value. That the occupant is a prostitute and uses the back room with several guys named John, or that a closet is used to grow pot, or that the house is owned by an appraiser who works out of his dining room against his PUD restrictions, is not my concern, unless it is having a measurable impact on value.
 
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I see in this thread that one answer is we use our personal politics to decide if we look the other way or report our findings.

I'd argue that another answer is that some folks are using their personal politics to create a much more grave situation than actually exists. :new_smile-l:Particularly considering the further information regarding the room that has been provided by the OP.

I'm now in the shoot photos of the plastic walls and any modifications, describe them and move on. If the lender wants further information, they can ask.
 
I probably wouldn't report it, child abuse, meth lab, another story. But weed just seems so harmless, dude.

TC

Is is just me, or does TC calling someone "dude" just crack you up?...:rof:
 
The problem is our own federal govt has given us good reason to doubt what is illegal, illegal but not enforced; look at the illegal alien issue. So many laws on the books, are they enforced?
 
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