Evincere
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- Dec 30, 2002
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- Certified Residential Appraiser
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- Florida
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Tim The Enchanter
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- Jan 24, 2002
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- Certified Residential Appraiser
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- California
Danger Will Robinson? 
Tim Hicks (Texas)
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- Jan 15, 2002
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- Certified Residential Appraiser
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Nothing can really replace the appraiser in the appraisal process. All homes are not equal and consumers certainly don't think their property is equal to everybody else's. No matter what solution you come up with, the consumer will not be happy when your product undervalues the slightest of improvement that they hold dearly. Have your ever heard of GIGO? Appraisers have the tools to dig through the garbage that went in and the garbage that was spit out. As long as we are working in an environment where the data is effected by old inaccurate data, new inaccurate data, poorly reported data by the new age of agents, technology, etc, there is no solution any company can develop. The very moment you undervalue or overvalue any property based on data you deem accurate but is proven inaccurate your product is obsolete and useless. The funny thing is that it has always been this way no matter what technology is developed. There will always be bad input by numerous sectors in the data collection because some humans simply do not care. Have you ever discussed with a home owner or agent why they presented a property incorrectly? They don't care or think they did nothing wrong.
When and if there ever comes a time when everybody buys the same cookie cutter every time, then your product might be reliable. Your company in not the first to try and fail and will not be the last because you can't make imperfect market data and their product perfect.
When and if there ever comes a time when everybody buys the same cookie cutter every time, then your product might be reliable. Your company in not the first to try and fail and will not be the last because you can't make imperfect market data and their product perfect.
George Hatch
Elite Member
- Joined
- Jan 15, 2002
- Professional Status
- Certified General Appraiser
- State
- California
We break the appraisal assignment into 2 components:
1 - The development of the valuation itself,
This is where all the research, analysis and conclusions comes in.
2 - The reporting of that process.
This is where we document and explain our process. Report writing, exhibits, documentation, etc.
-----------------------
Of the development side we spend most of that time - by far - on the qualification of the data we're using. Cleaning it up enough to use it in our analysis. Filling in any blanks that our databases aren't reporting, reconciling any discrepancies between the info being reported in these different databases and adding our own judgement as to what we think we're seeing in terms of quantity, quality and condition. Data qualification is the weak spot of *every* valuation model, including the ones we use. This is where that "G" in GIGO gets straightened out.
On the simple assignments we probably spend 90% or more on the task of data qualification. That's the most labor intensive and time consuming part of the development process. The remaining 10% is split about evenly between our research (before we narrow it all down to what we're using) and the analysis (after we've cleaned the data up enough to use it). So if it takes an appraiser (let's say) 7 hours to perform the average SFR appraisal assignment that's close to home, then 4 hours of that is spent on the development. Of that we'll spend maybe 20 minutes in research, 3.1/2 hours on all the field work, and maybe 10-15 minutes on the actual analysis of that data. And believe me when I tell you that a lot of appraisers don't even spend 10 minutes on that analysis function.
On the reporting side we'll do up a diagram and build our photo and map exhibits, transfer the data from our databases and our notes into our report and then we'll get to however much of the writing we're doing to document the whole process.
So the two functions in the entire process that we spend most of our time and effort on are
- Qualifying our data - which big data basically can't help us with very much; and
- Writing the report, which the various data transfer programs that we already have can help us with as far as the mindless data entry function goes.
P.S. =- all those charts and graphs that the techno-soys like to sell? Nobody ever reads them. Not our clients, not our reviewers and really, not even the appraisers who are using them. It's all filler - it adds to the page count the reviewers have to flip past in order to get to what the appraiser thinks. We can put a mask/cape on our dog and call him Batman, but that don't make him Batman.
That portion of the development process that I outlined in red represents the sum total amount of time these analytics can possibly save an appraiser in a typical appraisal assignment. The poindexters cannot clean our data up enough to replace our own data qualification protocols, they can't save us any drive time, they can't save us any inspection or diagram time to speak of, and they can't rate our properties for us for use in our comparisons. All they can do is throw more unqualified data at the problem and rely on the statistical assumptions they're making.
And unfortunately, "more unqualified data" is almost never a reasonable substitute to data qualification.
The tech can speed our reporting writing and documentation process up for us, and that's definitely time/effort well spent; but it can't form our opinions for us or communicate our opinions for us.
1 - The development of the valuation itself,
This is where all the research, analysis and conclusions comes in.
2 - The reporting of that process.
This is where we document and explain our process. Report writing, exhibits, documentation, etc.
-----------------------
Of the development side we spend most of that time - by far - on the qualification of the data we're using. Cleaning it up enough to use it in our analysis. Filling in any blanks that our databases aren't reporting, reconciling any discrepancies between the info being reported in these different databases and adding our own judgement as to what we think we're seeing in terms of quantity, quality and condition. Data qualification is the weak spot of *every* valuation model, including the ones we use. This is where that "G" in GIGO gets straightened out.
On the simple assignments we probably spend 90% or more on the task of data qualification. That's the most labor intensive and time consuming part of the development process. The remaining 10% is split about evenly between our research (before we narrow it all down to what we're using) and the analysis (after we've cleaned the data up enough to use it). So if it takes an appraiser (let's say) 7 hours to perform the average SFR appraisal assignment that's close to home, then 4 hours of that is spent on the development. Of that we'll spend maybe 20 minutes in research, 3.1/2 hours on all the field work, and maybe 10-15 minutes on the actual analysis of that data. And believe me when I tell you that a lot of appraisers don't even spend 10 minutes on that analysis function.
On the reporting side we'll do up a diagram and build our photo and map exhibits, transfer the data from our databases and our notes into our report and then we'll get to however much of the writing we're doing to document the whole process.
So the two functions in the entire process that we spend most of our time and effort on are
- Qualifying our data - which big data basically can't help us with very much; and
- Writing the report, which the various data transfer programs that we already have can help us with as far as the mindless data entry function goes.
P.S. =- all those charts and graphs that the techno-soys like to sell? Nobody ever reads them. Not our clients, not our reviewers and really, not even the appraisers who are using them. It's all filler - it adds to the page count the reviewers have to flip past in order to get to what the appraiser thinks. We can put a mask/cape on our dog and call him Batman, but that don't make him Batman.
That portion of the development process that I outlined in red represents the sum total amount of time these analytics can possibly save an appraiser in a typical appraisal assignment. The poindexters cannot clean our data up enough to replace our own data qualification protocols, they can't save us any drive time, they can't save us any inspection or diagram time to speak of, and they can't rate our properties for us for use in our comparisons. All they can do is throw more unqualified data at the problem and rely on the statistical assumptions they're making.
And unfortunately, "more unqualified data" is almost never a reasonable substitute to data qualification.
The tech can speed our reporting writing and documentation process up for us, and that's definitely time/effort well spent; but it can't form our opinions for us or communicate our opinions for us.
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Evincere
Elite Member
- Joined
- Dec 30, 2002
- Professional Status
- Certified Residential Appraiser
- State
- Florida
1. What exactly are you building and Why?
2. Why don’t YOU tell US exactly what you as a consultant and your clients think is wrong or lacking with the existing Appraisal process?
If you’re be very interested in further responses - some additional data and information about your project would be extremely helpful.
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George Hatch
Elite Member
- Joined
- Jan 15, 2002
- Professional Status
- Certified General Appraiser
- State
- California
And BTW; its the users (the lenders in particular) of appraisal services to whom you need to sell your better mousetrap. They're the ones who decide what modes of analyses and content are meaningful to the decisions they're making. As appraisers we don't tell these users what will be meaningful to them. What we do is respond to their interests insofar as they are communicating them to us. Quality and content is user driven, not appraiser driven. You can't push on a string.
So my advice is to ask the lenders what "more" they think they need, and don't forget to ask them how much extra they're willing to pay us to provide that "more" because we're all dying to know the answer to that question. 'Cause I can guarantee you that if their answer is "$0.00" then you guys are going to have a tough time selling those solutions to an appraiser.
So my advice is to ask the lenders what "more" they think they need, and don't forget to ask them how much extra they're willing to pay us to provide that "more" because we're all dying to know the answer to that question. 'Cause I can guarantee you that if their answer is "$0.00" then you guys are going to have a tough time selling those solutions to an appraiser.
Michigan CG
Elite Member
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- Nov 1, 2006
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- Certified General Appraiser
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- Michigan
Here are some things that you don't want to hear.
Appraisers, for the most part, do not want anything to do with AMCs and if you polled appraisers I am going to guess that 95% would love to not work with an AMC ever again. Post a poll here and see what you get.
There is a Facebook group that you most likely could get into call "I am a Real Estate Appraiser" and you could post a similar poll. They aren't picky about who joins.
If you want to partner with AMCs then you are most likely going to partner with one of the big ones and appraisers tend to hate the big ones the most. LRES, Xome/Streetlinks (or whatever they are now), Servicelink, Class, Dart, whoever Land Safe is now, etc. Don't expect much appraiser contribution to that.
The AMC business model is corrupt and dishonest. Borrowers are told they are getting a local appraiser who is an expert in their area, blah, blah, blah. That stuff is on all of their websites along with their high-quality review departments that are mostly filled with very unqualified people, many times former fast-food workers who are trained to do PDF searches for "key words".
Prior to 2016 it was considered unacceptable for AMCs to sent out assignments for "bid" as it might be a violation of law. 2016 killed AMCs because of the high volume and starting in 2017 some AMCs started sending out bid requests for lowest fees and turn times. By 2019 it was a very common practice to send bids out to 20-300 appraisers for a bid on a simple single-family home.
It was not uncommon for one of their office workers to accidentally send a request to 300 appraisers in a 200-mile radius with all appraisers listed on the e-mail. Multiple AMCs have been caught doing this. The general public is told that a local "expert" will be appraising their property. The general public is not told it might be a person who has never been in their neighborhood or town who was hired because they were the cheapest appraiser who would turn in a report 48 hours after inspection.
So many companies have been saying they will use technology to advance or do whatever for the appraisal industry and most likely your ideas are not new. Every time someone has some sort of great idea to "revolutionize" our industry it is posted here, other forums, Facebook pages and made public by our trade organizations.
Personally, I don't care. I got rid of all AMCs and when they call I tell them there is a $200 AMC fee for the hassle of working with them as they want daily updates, have technology fees, have their people call appraisers daily along with their mostly idiot reviewers doing PDF checks asking if a two-acre property is a farm.
If you want the opinions of appraisers but your business partners are going to be AMCs then you are barking up the wrong tree. If you want to change the industry then promote good appraisers instead of the AMC model of hiring the cheap and fast clueless appraisers.
A final thought; when you talk to your AMC partners do they complain about a shortage of appraisers? Most AMCs make that claim and will give you figures from 2007 to now but they will never give you the number of appraisers in 2000 vs now because it does not support their agenda. We (appraisers) are not hiring/training trainees because of the AMC business model.
J Grant
Elite Member
- Joined
- Dec 9, 2003
- Professional Status
- Certified Residential Appraiser
- State
- Florida
If the OP can find a way to "partner" with an AMC - omg good luck. AMC's are in the business of taking money from people, not paying money. I doubt they would spend a dime on an appraisal "solution" unless it somehow generates revenue for them. There are an over saturation of supposedly wonder tech products and programs out there, . Never in the history of the world have so many been clamoring to "help" the appraisal process with "solutions,"
There is no solution, short of getting rid of the appraiser- which is not happening immediately, because it is not just a valuation product ( appraisal) it is that the APPRAISER has a role in the process -including answering to underwriters, reviewers, fannie UAD and ROV etc - and only the appraiser is responsible for results years out, long after the AMC ,tech , and other assorted leeches took a $ cut and disappeared.
There is no solution, short of getting rid of the appraiser- which is not happening immediately, because it is not just a valuation product ( appraisal) it is that the APPRAISER has a role in the process -including answering to underwriters, reviewers, fannie UAD and ROV etc - and only the appraiser is responsible for results years out, long after the AMC ,tech , and other assorted leeches took a $ cut and disappeared.
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Evincere
Elite Member
- Joined
- Dec 30, 2002
- Professional Status
- Certified Residential Appraiser
- State
- Florida
Unless the OP returns with a follow up and additional information, it would appear from the get go that the OP if a consultant is a green newbie consultant. Because apparently his questions were asked prior to doing research on how the majority of Appraisers view points and experiences are with the existing AMCs. There are ample resources such as blogs, newsletters, and Forums available to research the subject.
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