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Housing Bubble Bursting?

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Sorry, I don't have access to the raw data from the early 90s. It sure would be interesting, though.

I wonder if the 24% might somehow be an overstatement though. I don't remember the last bust being that bad even at its worst.
 
George Hatch said:
Sorry, I don't have access to the raw data from the early 90s. It sure would be interesting, though.

I wonder if the 24% might somehow be an overstatement though. I don't remember the last bust being that bad even at its worst.
I understand, that is why I am quoting the sources so that you or anyone can verify same or present whatever data you have both current and historical.

On pre-foreclosures, they list the DC (deed catagory) and the most frequent is NOD (notice of default). It may be that not all of these are actual listings on the MLS. I don't have an account on www.foreclosure.com so I can't see all their information they present. They just give the street name, no street number, with city and zip. The word "active" is given as the status. They have a term DOS (days on site). A good number of what they show do not have a number for DOS. Maybe some of these are more than a year old or should not be listed as active.
 
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20061003/ap_on_bi_ge/troubled_housing
Forecast sees housing prices falling By MARTIN CRUTSINGER, AP Economics Writer
35 minutes ago



WASHINGTON - Housing prices, slumping after a five-year boom, are projected to decline in more than 100 of the nation's metropolitan areas, with the Northeast, Florida and California among the areas hardest hit.

The forecast by Moody's Economy.com, a private research firm, presents one of the starkest views yet of the housing slowdown that has been gathering force in recent months.

The West Chester, Pa., forecasting firm projects that the median sales price for an existing home will decline in 2007 by 3.6 percent, which would be the first decline for an entire year in home prices since the Great Depression of the 1930s.

The forecast is included in a 195-page report, "Housing at the Tipping Point," which The Associated Press obtained before its general release on Wednesday.

The report projected that 133 of the nation's 379 metropolitan areas would suffer price declines. Those metropolitan areas with declining prices account for nearly one-half of the value of the nation's stock of single-family homes.

The price declines represent quite a contrast from the past five years when low mortgage rates pushed sales to five consecutive annual records and prices in the hottest sales areas skyrocketed.

But this year, the once red-hot housing market has cooled significantly. Some analysts are worried that the slowdown could become so severe that it could drag the entire country into a recession, much as the bursting of the stock market bubble in 2000 led to the 2001 slump.

The housing report said the biggest percentage price decline will be in Danville, Ill., where prices have already fallen by 18.7 percent from the peak in the second quarter of 2005 to a low-point in the first three months of this year. That setback occurred because of layoffs in autos and other manufacturing industries, which depressed the local economy.

The second biggest decline is projected to occur in the Fort Myers, Fla., area, a fall of 18.6 percent from the peak in the final three months of last year to a low-point for prices that is projected to occur in the second quarter of 2007.

The 133 areas with slumping prices are concentrated in the states of California and Florida and the Northeast corridor from southern Maine to just south of Washington, D.C., as well as boom areas of Nevada and Arizona and some depressed sections of the Midwest such as Detroit.

Of the areas with falling prices, 73 were forecast to hit their lowpoint by the end of this year with the rest seeing a trough for prices in 2007 or later.

But even in areas which have already hit a lowpoint, the rebound in prices is not expected to occur quickly.

"Prices are going to go down and stay down for awhile. It will take at least a couple of years to work off the excesses of the last decade," said Mark Zandi, chief economist at Moody's Economy.com and the principal author of the report.

Not all parts of the country will experience price declines. The report said Texas, the Southeastern states other than Florida and much of the Midwest Farm Belt should be immune from price declines although price increases were expected to be modest.

The report said the most vulnerable areas for price declines were those regions where red-hot markets attracted speculators known as "flippers" who purchased homes in hopes of selling them fast for a quick profit.

"Housing's downturn has turned even more dramatic with the rapid flight of the flipper from the market," the report said. "These investors have gone from sending home sales and prices shooting higher to driving sales and prices lower."

The report described the current environment as a "correction" and not a "crash," but it cautioned that there were downside risks that could make the slowdown more serious.

A big threat is that the fall in home prices could have a significant impact on consumer spending patterns. The so-called wealth effect pushed consumer spending higher during the housing boom as soaring home prices made homeowners feel more wealthy and thus more inclined to spend money. But falling home prices could have the reverse effect and depress consumer spending.

"We believe the housing downturn will weigh on the economic expansion but will not break it. But there are risks," Zandi said.

The slowdown in housing occurred as a result of a two-year campaign by the Federal Reserve to push interest rates higher as a way of slowing the economy enough to keep inflation under control.

The Fed has kept rates unchanged for the past two months and many economists believe the central bank has finished its rate hikes as long as inflation pressures keep falling.

The belief that the current economic slowdown is restraining inflation has helped push mortgage rates lower with the 30-year mortgage now at a six-month low of 6.31 percent, an improvement that is expected to help put a floor on housing's fall.
 
Apparently we've passed the bubble here ...

Arizona State University economist Dawn McLaren was one of those people who dared use the word "bubble" over the last couple of years.

But as inventory climbs and prices stay flat, the economist who said she was sometimes called "Chicken Little" is actually relieved.

"We had a price bubble," McLaren said. "It's not a collapse, but it's starting a correction phase. In economic terms, a bubble is when prices move away from their fundamental value."


http://www.azstarnet.com/business/149309.php
 
Randolph,

I am not sure this will help you, but from data I have seen, the typical percentage of NODs and other deliquencies that actually end up in foreclosure is about 25% or less. Most borrowers cure the deficiency. I cannot tell you how many of these are actually listed for sale, but not all are hoping for a short sale even though some will end up there. All depends upon how much they owe vs. what they can get of course.

Geroge,

Thanks for the data. If you will remember, very early in the post and in some before this post going back 2 years at least, I had said that the San Diego County market was one of those at great risk for a big drop. So, the much lower sales prices are really not a big surprise for me since that is what Freddie had predicted 3 years ago at the PMC.

Is your data seperated out by condo vs. SFR? I ask because I see the national inventories for condos at 8.6 months vs. the SFRs (I think) at 7.3 months, if my old brain is recallng the NAR data correctly.

I think we all knew abgout the condo speculators in your county. I am interested in the condo stuff as I am toying with looking for one. Thanks,

Brad
 
Rae Saunders said:
In economic terms, a bubble is when prices move away from their fundamental value.
That's as good of a definition from an appraiser's viewpoint as I've ever heard. So a bubble might not need to pop... it could just deflate.

Housing is still, apparently, overpriced in some areas. Will that lead to disaster? Well, yesterday (October 3, 2006) the DJIA closed at a record high, unemployment is still low in most places, and energy prices are coming down, with yesterdays quote for a barrel of oil setting a low not seen for quite a while. And, interest rates remain low by historical standards.

Still, there are things to be concerned about. We are more closely tied to the economic fortunes of far away places than we used to be. The war in Iraq is not going well by any logical assessment. And, there are other tensions in other oil producing countries. That, together with the new possibility of wage inflation in the U.S. and we are far from out of the woods.
 
The Moody's Economy Analysis on housing market further supports what some of us said on this thread over and over but were challenged by some illusionists who had no logic or reason for their wishful thinking
http://money.cnn.com/2006/10/03/real_estate/moodys_homeforecast/index.htm?postversion=2006100320
Big downturn seen for some home markets
Analysis of 379 metro areas forecasts double-digit declines for nearly 20 markets.
By Lex Haris, CNNMoney.com
October 3 2006: 8:05 PM EDT


NEW YORK (CNNMoney.com) -- The housing market will get worse before it gets better - that's the finding of an analysis by Moody's Economy.com to be released Wednesday.

In the survey of 379 metro areas, the study's authors concluded that nearly 20 areas eventually could experience a "crash," or a decline of more than 10 percent from peak to trough. The most hard-hit areas will be in California, alongside the Southwest coast of Florida, and in Arizona and Nevada.

In addition to 30 areas already experiencing declines, the study predicts that 70 others will soon experience measurable declines, with drops extending into 2008 and even 2009.

Using a separate analytical approach, the study's authors found that more than 100 markets have a significant probability of experiencing declines by this time next year. The authors considered home affordability, the local job market, supply/demand, and overall values.

Those 100 areas represent nearly half of the country's housing stock. As a result, the authors write, "odds are high that national home prices will decline in 2007; the first decline in nominal national house prices since the Great Depression."
 
Shhhhhh...

I'm already seeing anywhere from 10% - over 50% declines from one year ago in my area.
The highest being in vacant lots/land.
 
Brad,

I was actually referring to new SFR subdivisions with those price cuts, not condos. I haven't been watching the downtown condo market as such. Condo's may be worse - I would think they would be - but I don't kow one way or another.
 
Mountain peak & valley

Jerry Lieb said:
Our "bubble" has not burst, but there is definitely a good sized leak in it...!

Maricopa County Arizona, which I believe is where Phoenix is located (Wil, correct me if I'm wrong) was the fastest growing county in the U.S. according to the U.S. Census Bureau. I would think your market will do fairly well - even if it slows a bit.

We're in Riverside County California, which was second fastest growing county in the U.S. according to the same U.S. Census report. This is growth by "numbers of people", not by percentage. Our order flow is down from a year ago - but we're still managing to keeping busy both residentially and commercially.
====================
West Tenessee, both urban-rural is more like a mountain;
havent had time to read DeDe's article, but that elk by the mountain is a pretty good picture. Most mountains have peaks & valleys.

Closing Real estate attorneys's helper said August was shocking slow;
Sept-Oct is snowed in a good sense, she said.

Did see some bubbles lately, do want to be careful not to get burned;
those ''bubbles'' were in my cofee, however.
 
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