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Housing Bubble Bursting?

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moe cohen said:
Another article points out the vulnerability of large banks to a decline in real estate value. It indicates that banks currently provide more NEW liquidity in the secondary mortgage market than FNMA or FHMLC.
Moe

I've recently been making the point that Wall Street will eclipse the GSEs as the standard-setters for appraisal quality; I'll use this as part of my argument's support (thanks, Moe!).

As to Moh's question regarding 50-yr mortgages and their cost/premium, here is just one offering I cut from a website:

50 Year Home Loan Information

XYZ is pleased to offer a 50 year home mortgage program. This product is essentially a 30 year fixed rate mortgage with a 50 year amortization. 50 year mortgages can be a good alternative to interest only loans and Option Arm programs because the rate will not adjust for 30 years and you will slowly (albeit very slowly) pay down your principal. With interest only loans, you do not pay down your principal and option ARMs can have negative amortization if you only make the minimum monthly payment each month. Our loan advisors can help sort through the pros and cons of interest only loans, pay option ARMs, 50 year mortgages, or any other program that our investors offer. Simply give us a call for more information and to see if a 50 year home loan is right for you.
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Request a free 50 Year Mortgage rate quote.
  • Call XYZ’s West Coast Office for a free consultation at zzz-LOW-RATE.50 Year Home Loan Program
* Highlights - The “FF-50 Program”

  • 50 year amortization schedule
  • Ideal for large loan amounts
  • Helps keep monthly payments low while you slowly pay down principal
  • 100% 50 year mortgage purchase financing available from 580 credit scores
  • Programs available for scores down to 540 (FICO)
  • 1st and 2nd combo mortgage financing allowed
  • Balloon payment due at year thirty
  • Available for single family homes, condos, 2-unit homes, and homes in planned unit developments
  • Prior late mortgage payments okay
  • Discharged Bankruptcies okay
  • Debt to income ratios allowed up to 55% Other 50 Year Home Loan Options
This program is also available as a 2/28, 3/27 and 5/25 ARM with a 50 year mortgage loan amortization. With these alternatives, your rate remains locked for 2 years, 3 years, or 5 years and then begins to adjust upward after the corresponding period of time. The benefit is that you may get a lower starting rate than with the 30 year fixed but you risk the stability of the longer term fixed rate product. Give us a call to see if a 50 year mortgage program is a good fit for your financial needs.Terms and conditions may apply and program eligibility may vary for each loan scenario. See your loan advisor for details.

I note in this website's offering, it does mention a downside of this program being effectively no paying down of the principal.
I took out the company's name/phone number- didn't know if there was a copyright issue.
 
the speculative episode always ends not with a whimper but with a bang.

June 25, 2006
The Speculative Episode

by Tim Wood

The following text is a quote from the book A Short History of Financial Euphoria by John Kenneth Galbraith. I found this material to be very fitting and for that reason I wanted to share it with you.
"Anyone taken as an individual is tolerably sensible and reasonable...as a member of a crowd, he at once becomes a blockhead." ...Friedrich Von Schiller, As quoted by Bernard Baruch
That the free-enterprise economy is given to recurrent episodes of speculation will be agreed. These--great events and small, involving bank notes, securities, real estate, art and other assets or objects--are, over the years and centuries, part of history. What have not been sufficiently analyzed are the features common to these episodes, the things that signal their certain return and have thus the considerable practical value of aiding understanding and prediction. Regulation and more orthodox economic knowledge are not what protect the individual and the financial institution when euphoria returns, leading on as it does to wonder at the increase in values and wealth, to the rush to participate that drives up prices, and to the eventual crash and its sullen and painful aftermath. There is protection only in a clear perception of the characteristics common to these flights into what must conservatively be described as mass insanity. Only then is the investor warned and saved.
There are, however, few matters on which such a warning is less welcomed. In the short run, it will be said to be an attack, motivated by either deficient understanding or uncontrolled envy, on the wonderful process of enrichment. More durably, it will be thought to demonstrate a lack of faith in the inherent wisdom of the market itself.
The more obvious features of the speculative episode are manifestly clear to anyone open to understanding. Some artifact or some development, seemingly new and desirable--tulips in Holland, gold in Louisiana, real estate in Florida, the superb economic designs of Ronald Reagan--captures the financial mind or perhaps, more accurately, what so passes. The price of the object of speculation goes up. Securities, land, objets d’art, and other property, when bought today, are worth more tomorrow. This increase and the prospect attract new buyers; the new buyers assure a further increase. Yet more are attracted; yet more buy; the increase continues. The speculation building on itself provides its own momentum.
This process, once it is recognized, is clearly evident, and especially so after the fact. So also, if more subjectively, are the basic attitudes of the participants. These take two forms. There are those who are persuaded that some new price-enhancing circumstance is in control, and they expect the market to stay up and go up, perhaps indefinitely. It is adjusting to a new situation, a new world of greatly, even infinitely increasing returns and resulting values. Then there are those, superficially more astute and generally fewer in number, who perceive or believe themselves to perceive the speculative mood of the moment. They are in to ride the upward wave; their particular genius, they are convinced, will allow them to get out before the speculation run its course. They will get the maximum reward from the increase as it continues; they will be out before the eventual fall.
For built into this situation is the eventual and inevitable fall. Built in also is the circumstance that it cannot come gently or gradually. When it comes, it bears the grim face of disaster. That is because both of the groups of participants in the speculative situation are programmed for sudden efforts at escape. Something, it matters little what--although it will always be much debated--triggers the ultimate reversal. Those who had been riding the upward wave decide now is the time to get out. Those who thought the increase would be forever find their illusion destroyed abruptly, and they, also, respond to the newly revealed reality by selling or trying to sell. Thus the collapse. And thus the rule, supported by the experience of centuries: the speculative episode always ends not with a whimper but with a bang. There will be occasion to see the operation of this rule frequently repeated.
So much, as I’ve said, is clear. Less understood is the mass psychology of the speculative mood. When it is fully comprehended, it allows those so favored to save themselves from disaster. Given the pressure of this crowd psychology, however, the saved will be the exception to a very broad and binding rule. They will be required to resist two compelling forces: one, the powerful personal interest that develops in the euphoric belief, and the other, the pressure of public and seemingly superior financial opinion that is brought to bear on behalf of such belief. Both stand as proof of Schiller’s dictum that the crowd converts the individual from reasonably good sense to the stupidity against which, as he also said, “the very Gods Themselves contend in vain.”
Although only a few observers have noted the vested interest in error that accompanies speculative euphoria, it is, nonetheless, an extremely plausible phenomenon. Those involved with the speculation are experiencing an increase in wealth--getting rich or being further enriched. No one wishes to believe that this is fortuitous or undeserved; all wish to think that it is the result of their own superior insight or intuition. The very increase in values thus captures the thoughts and minds of those being rewarded. Speculation buys up, in a very practical way, the intelligence of those involved.
This is particularly true of the first group noted above--those who are convinced that values are going up permanently and indefinitely. But the errors of vanity of those who think they will beat the speculative game are also thus reinforced. As long as they are in, they have a strong pecuniary commitment to belief in the unique personal intelligence that tells them there will be yet more. In the last century, one of the most astute observers of the euphoric episodes common to those years was Walter Bagehot, financial writer and early editor of The Economist. To him we are indebted for the observation that “all people are most credulous when they are most happy.”
Strongly reinforcing the vested interest in euphoria is the condemnation that the reputable public and financial opinion directs at those who express doubt or dissent. It is said that they are unable, because of defective imagination or other mental inadequacy, to grasp the new and rewarding circumstances that sustain and secure the increase in values. Or their motivation is deeply suspect. In the winter of 1929, Paul M. Warburg, the most respected banker of his time and one of the founding parents of the Federal Reserve System, spoke critically of the then-current orgy of “unrestrained speculation” and said that if it continued, there would ultimately be a disastrous collapse, and the country would face a serious depression. The reaction to his statement was bitter, even vicious. He was held to be obsolete in his view; he was “sandbagging American prosperity”; quite possibly, he was himself short in the market. There was more than a shadow of anti-Semitism in this response.
http://www.financialsense.com/Market/wood/2003/1212.html
 
None of our 30+ investors offer a 50 year loan. We do have a 40 year loan, but they are silly options, IMO. Talk about having to overcome depression!

There are so many interest only 30 year loan products out there that it makes more sense to go with one of them. I haven't checked rate premiums for such a product for a while, and am too lazy to log in to see where the investor pricing closed on Friday.

As I recall, the risk premium is about 1/4% to the rate. The products come in a few flavors such as an initial 5 year period that allows an interest only payment, with the loan balance after year 5 amortizing over the remaining 25 years. Another flavor has the first 10 years as the interest only time and the remaining balance to be amortized years 11-30.

Add about 1/8% to the rate and you can have the products with a simultaneous close 2nd mortgage (fixed or adjustable HELOC) and there is no MI required for the first mortgage. Generally, the 1st mortgage investor doesn't require that they originate the 2nd mortgage.

Risk based pricing, all the way. The 80-20 programs with the best rates are picky, picky, picky. Clearly some emphasize different things. For many, any mortgage late within the last 12 months is a poison pill. Many programs require 4-5 trade lines with 2-3 of them reporting 24 months. Almost all require 2 months PITI reserves. Some require 5% PITI in certain situations. Many times first time buyers need to show reserves or are excluded....could be 401K (discounted).

Enough info?

The 50 year loans sound like custom products. I don't think they are Freddie or Fannie. Interest only with the option to pay down at any (positive) amortization schedule toe consumer chooses is a better product, note rates being equal, since it offers more payment flexibility in the most relevant time period. JMHO.
 
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Given the pressure of this crowd psychology, however, the saved will be the exception to a very broad and binding rule. They will be required to resist two compelling forces: one, the powerful personal interest that develops in the euphoric belief, and the other, the pressure of public and seemingly superior financial opinion that is brought to bear on behalf of such belief. Both stand as proof of Schiller’s dictum that the crowd converts the individual from reasonably good sense to the stupidity against which, as he also said, “the very Gods Themselves contend in vain.”

I don't see a monopoly on stupidity. Also, some pretty smart people have done some pretty stupid things. Didn't IBM execs think PC's were a fad at one time? Where did Sperry Univac go? Tandem? There were IBM & the 7 dwarf, and I can hardly remember the dwarfs.

PC's and many other electronic devices kept getting cheaper and cheaper for years before the public finally figured out in mass that they would just have to pay now to play. An inflation in reverse problem. Too bad there aren't construction breakthroughs that make homes cheaper and cheaper.

Hmmmmm. Maybe my house in a box constructed from treated cardboard will be a winner if I can just get my houses from boxes enterprise zone legislation passed. Perfect for parts of N.O. Just pack up your box and leave before the next big one hits....or let it blow away. It is bio-degradable.
 
George,
Just to put all biases on the table, when I post it is tangential. When Mike S. posts, it is personal and or promoting something.

When you and Moh holler about astronomical So Cal GRMs it means there is a bubble, unless you choose to ride the equity down. Then it is a case of utility.

From reading the So Cal posts you've made it appear that many vacant or low rent houses are available. It appears to be a no brainer to upgrade your housing while paying low rents. Don't need to be an investor to understand that.

"I'd say a net 50% savings in monthly housing costs during a declining market is a pretty profitable move, wouldn't you?"

Sure would.
 
"How can you call yourself a wise investor or real estate market analyst when you are missing an important factor which is behind all of your above list of items. All the listing that you put them on are symptoms but the cause of those symptoms are something else that you either don’t see it or you don’t want to see and that cause is not only nationwide but all around the world."

Moh-

I rarely answer your posts because they're typically off the deep end. However, regarding being a wise investor or how I can call myself a real estate market analyst...the proof's in the pudding. I'm either right & profit (and so do my clients), or I'm wrong & I'm out of work and broke.

Mike Neff: "Just to put all biases on the table, when I post it is tangential. When Mike S. posts, it is personal and or promoting something."

You said a mouthful there. I especially get a chuckle out of this notion I'm promoting something (a Moderator made a similar claim not so long ago), but ya know what...I ain't selling diddly. All I've ever done is to simply try to share ideas. Some are interested and ask questions or share their own experiences & we learn. Others jump to wild conclusions, are resentful & jealous, and say no one's interested (most often they're the ones I've christened Crusaders [now another debate regarding who coined the phrase Crusaders], and they happen to have the overwhelming majority of posts outnumbering their critics 5 to 1--which explains this negative bias on the Forum & the reason we must suffer through 'Housing Bubble - The Fourth Edition'...can hardly wait till next year!).

No one's interested George says...well one Forum regular use to contact me on occasion. I shared information with him & spoke over the phone (he said I motivated him). He was fed up with appraising & took a path somewhat similar to my own--haven't seen him posting here lately, but I hope he's making a bundle & enjoying his new found career. That's just one example...others have contacted me as well.

George also says SoCal tanked a year or two ago...claims the Bubble's in full swing. HOGWASH! While the SoCal market's cooled considerably...it's nowhere near the disaster George predicted in days gone by. We've other Forumites who've predicted disaster in their particular markets as well...even claimed it was taking place all along...right throught the hottest market in this nations history (Denver & Florida come to mind).

We all "interject ourselves" into these posts George. Citing one's personal successes IS a viable argument to this debate. You claim we're just dumb lucky...if that's the case...I'd rather be lucky than wrong four years & counting.

-Mike
 
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Moh,
Thank you for that excerpt from "The Speculative Episode" by Tim Wood !!!!!
IMO, it's well written and documented.
 
Mike Simpson said:
We all "interject ourselves" into these posts George. Citing one's personal successes IS a viable argument to this debate. You claim we're just dumb lucky...if that's the case...I'd rather be lucky than wrong four years & counting.

-Mike

I don't think citing one's personal success is vital to this particular debate. Personal success may be motivational, but it certainly doesn't have the effect of decreasing the supply of homes on the market or decreasing interest rates.

If the discussion was about how to use appraiser skills in other ways, or how to make money in real estate, you might have a valid point.
 
This thread will probablly continue for the next 2.5 years BUT it all boils down to IF IF this had happened. IF this hadn't happened.
 
Renters face tight apartment market

Renters face tight apartment market
Easing real-estate market, condo conversions crimp apartment stock

By Amy Hoak, MarketWatch
Last Update: 7:19 AM ET Jun 26, 2006

CHICAGO (MarketWatch) -- With a budget between $1,200 and $1,300 a month, Charlene Conston thought she would easily be able to find an apartment in Southern California's San Fernando Valley.

Forget about being priced out of owning a home, Conston, 55, feels priced out of the rental market, too. To find a two-bedroom apartment for herself and her college-age daughter, she's using an online database she had to pay to tap into.

Her story is a common one in some California markets, said Delores Conway, director of the Casden Forecast at the University of Southern California's Lusk Center for Real Estate.

Los Angeles County has a 2.8% vacancy rate, down from 3.2% a year ago, she said. The competition for rentals has allowed landlords to raise rents by 7% on average throughout the county. Rents in Hollywood went up 9%, she said.

Other regions are seeing a similar tightening.

The nation's 57 largest metropolitan areas posted an average vacancy rate of 4.4%, according to a March survey by M/PF Yieldstar, a real-estate research firm. The rate was 5.6% a year ago and 7.3% when the rental market bottomed out in late 2003, said Greg Willett, the company's vice president of research and analysis.

Annual rent growth was 4% as of March, the survey found, and more rent increases are anticipated. A rent "bump" of 5% to 5.5% should hit tenants in 2006, Willett said.

Why are rental occupancy rates up? The reasons vary by location, but there are a few general trends fueling demand for rentals.

Fewer renters jumping into homeownership

The rental market is the complement to the housing market, Conway said. So when homeownership looks less attractive, renting looks more attractive.

And buying a home is certainly looking less pretty these days for those on the fence between buying and leasing. Soaring appreciation rates in some markets have caused home prices to become less affordable; rising mortgage interest rates aren't helping either.

It's a change of pace from the past several years, when people bought homes earlier than expected, said Mark Obrinsky, chief economist for the National Multi Housing Council.

"Now that there is a sense of pause, there may not be the same kind of frenzy to jump in," Obrinsky said.

A bigger pool of renters in turn creates more demand for rental units. This gives apartment owners the go-ahead to raise rents and offer fewer concessions, said Jeremy Bencken, chief executive of ApartmentRatings.com, a Web site that allows tenants to opine on their experiences living in specific rental properties.

Landlords have "been basically sitting on their hands, watching renters exit the market and find homes," he said. If the renter was unsatisfied, there was enough room in the market to move to another, more desirable unit. That often isn't the case anymore.

Supply and demand

Also working against a renter is the fact that in many markets there simply aren't as many units to choose from as there used to be. Many investors converted apartment buildings into condominiums in recent years, and that had an effect on the rental stock.

There were 198,532 condo conversions in 2005, the year the trend hit its peak, according to research from Real Capital Analytics, a firm that tracks the commercial real estate market. The number of conversions in 2006 is expected to finish far below that level, said Dan Fasulo, director of market analysis for the firm.

Some of that apartment stock could return to the rental market when individual owners rent out units instead of reselling them, as they might have originally intended when the market was hot. This is creating what Lisa Trosien calls a "ghost market": Rental units that aren't counted in traditional apartment stock. Trosien, who operates ApartmentExpert.com, studies the apartment industry and speaks to groups on the trends she spots.

Bencken, of ApartmentRatings.com, says that for tenants, a condo rental can be a good situation. The "unwilling landlords" are often looking for reliable tenants who will stay for a while. They may agree to a better deal from the renter's perspective.

The current supply and demand conditions may also inspire new apartment buildings, Conway said.

"There's a lot of interest by the big REITs," she said, adding that new investments may help beef up rental stock down the line.

But so far, apartment construction activity hasn't increased, according to M/PF Yieldstar research. This year, about 160,000 apartment units will be delivered nationally, compared to about 150,000 units in 2005, Willett said.

At the same time, condo development is booming: About 210,000 condominium units will be finished in 2006, compared with 120,000 last year, he said.

"This is the first time ever that condo deliveries will top apartment completions," Willett said in an e-mail interview.

"Development costs are holding back the run-up in apartment starts that normally would occur as occupancy tightens. Combining the rapid run-up in land prices that has occurred in recent years and an unprecedented surge in the costs of construction materials, it's now hard to make the financials work on a new development deal in many places," he said.

Looking forward, a change in demographics

Demographic pressures will also play into rental housing's overall picture in coming years, when the children of baby boomers -- dubbed "echo boomers" or "Generation Y" -- enter the market.

To reach that demographic, many listings are migrating online. Younger renters are likely to do an initial search for an apartment on the Internet, said Daryl Toor, spokesman for Rent.com, an apartment listings site owned by eBay. Also popular for apartment hunting is Craigslist, of which eBay owns 25%.

And with Generation Y just beginning to enter the rental market, some rental firms are experimenting with different advertising techniques to reach the demographic, Trosien said. They're discovering what people in this group want from their living spaces and how they make their rental decisions -- often with their parents at their sides.

"Ninety percent of the time, they want mom and dad's approval," Trosien said. "You're selling to Generation Y, but also their parents."
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