How do you guys normally measure a stair-like this?

[Marty Boone]

Call the county tax assessor and get a copy of their sketch (if you don't already have it you need help) ask them how they measure a vaulted foyer so you can understand the reported square footage of the comparable sales. Don't measure the stairs, just take out the vaulted area on the second floor and then your sketch will more accurately reflect the correct GLA. If you follow the ANSI definition then you will be measuring staircases for a long time, a better method to go by is, "if you can't walk on it, it isn't GLA". And here come the dissenting opinions to comment about standard staircases, ready go.

 

[Zoe]

ANSI is right. How much could you be off on that staircase? 2 or 3 sq feet? Let's say you miss it 10 sf. So what? What is important is you have a standard (ANSI) you are using. I recommend the class for any appraiser that has never had the ANSI class.

 

[Peter LeQuire]

Determining GLA of newer, larger, "upscale" houses I found to be challenging. Stairs are easy - difficult are the complex shapes of upper level areas that are finished (many having lots of offsets). An older two story, rectangular in shape with an entry foyer extending to the upper level ceiling is easy - measure the open area (the area immediately over a stairway is not open, it is part of the area of the level from which it descends.

As a comment on assessors' office area calcs - I found that many contain substantial errors. Common among them are things like attributing to areas over attached garages the same area as the footprint of the garage; not accounting for finished area inside the footprint of the garage (as a utility room or a breakfast area of study/office; considering breezeways as finished space; not catching additions not shown on the property cards. And on and on. All of which essentially means that an appraiser is (rightly) required to verify the pertinent information about properties used as comparables.

 

[RCA]

View attachment 56484

I really need help with measuring this type of stair. How do you guys measure this type of stair? Thanks !!!!

Run a measuring wheel down the middle of the stairs and take the distance times the average width to get the additional living area to add to the second floor. Assuming the stairs is at an approx 45 degree angle, divide the length by 1.4 (square root of two). [ If you want more exact, then consider the step drop and width. ]

If using CAD, that all depends on how good the software is. With Chief Architect, you draw a polyline around the stairs in the CAD (well of course you have to draw the stairs first) and then get the area from the polyline. If usijng the Home Designer Pro version of Chief Architect, you will have to do without the stair fanout. But that should be good enough.

 

[Peter LeQuire]

Back in the day, I would measure the stairs as carefully as I could; put the dimensions on graph paper (the 10 squares per inch variety) and count the squares. You can approximate the curve of the stairs by establishing a reference line from the bottom of the stairs to a point immediately under the edge of the upper level floor. When I grew up, I figured out how to use my software's sketch program - which required the same information about tread dimensions.

Then I went to lunch with Barney Rubble.

 

[Tru Red]

My supervisor's colleague. He told me to measure it and they will deduct sqft out of it or something.

See: Snipe hunting.

 

[RCA]

Run a measuring wheel down the middle of the stairs and take the distance times the average width to get the additional living area to add to the second floor. Assuming the stairs is at an approx 45 degree angle, divide the length by 1.4 (square root of two). [ If you want more exact, then consider the step drop and width. ]

If using CAD, that all depends on how good the software is. With Chief Architect, you draw a polyline around the stairs in the CAD (well of course you have to draw the stairs first) and then get the area from the polyline. If usijng the Home Designer Pro version of Chief Architect, you will have to do without the stair fanout. But that should be good enough.

By the way, we ought to have a thread on "Tricks of the Trade".

I. Measuring wheels are underrated.

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The 12" Milwaukee wheel is to be recommended. It measures to the 1/100 of a foot. It can also measure in meters. So, it is in fact capable of more accuracy than a measuring tape.

NOTES ON USE:

1. Don't be afraid to put the measuring wheel up on walls or wherever it makes sense.

2. Try to find some indication of a straight line along the wall (siding is useful) to allow you to run the wheel along something of a straight line.

3. You can get lightweight 8-16 foot pole extenders to mount the wheel pole on, so that you can use it on a second story. You will need to craft an adapter to set the angle to less than 90 degrees, so that you can run the wheel perpendicular to the wall.



Pros
1. It can be faster than a tape measure going around a house. NOTE: If you have the typical 12" diameter wheel (which Milwaukee is), when you hit a 90 degree inner corner, you have to stop and add 6 inches (the radius) to the measured length. Going around corners gives you an advantage: (1) Note the measurement at the corner, then (2) Don't reset the meter just keep going - all the way around. When you get to the starting point, take the final measurement and add 12" (2 x 6") for each inner corner. You then have an accurate circumference of the entire building - which will improve your accuracy even more.

2. You don't have to worry about tape sagging.

Cons

1. While you don't have the tape sagging issue, you will loose accuracy by not running the wheel along a perfectly straight line. (However, if you have trim to run it along, you are probably better off than with a wheel.

2. Laser can be more accurate, but they often require extra time to set up targets and mess with not being able to find the red dot [big problem, I don't care how good they say the new meters are.]

II. For those big 6K sf homes with complex architectural drawings.

1. Buy a lightweight but waterproof 18" x 24" marker board from Office Depot and a good $8 spring clamp from Home Depot. You can use this to mount large complex architectural drawings for when you have to go through the home and take measurements. It saves time. You can also get a plastic sheet to cover it in case of rain.

2. You can take the clamp and drawings off the board temporarily (keep the drawings clamped) and then use the board to run the measuring wheel on going down stairs. The board is wide enough to make slight turns with the wheel going down a twisting set of stairs. You hold the wheel with one hand and move the 18" x 24" board down the stairs in front of it, lifting the wheel as you move the board. You can probably do down two or three steps at a time, lifting at the step edges. You should be able to quickly get some pretty accurate step measurements this way.

III. Small measuring wheels.

There are also 6" measuring wheels, also from Milwaukee - but they are only 1/8" accurate. You will have to add 3" when you hit interior corners. However, they can come in handy if you are in one of those houses with too much junk around the walls to get the laser to the wall. You'd be surprised .... No, you wouldn't. Older people especially have a lot of junk. Having a small folded measuring wheel around can solve some problems quickly. - And you want to be both quick and accurate in measurements.

 

[Peter LeQuire]

Good information.

When I was working, I used a laser measuring device. It's accurate to 1/16th. inch (though that degree of accuracy is not meaningful). Its smaller size made it easier to carry and use than a 100' tape: I also carried a 25' steel tape with the "no sag" feature in its first 10' of so.

As to accuracy - I'd be hard pressed to remember a house that "measured square": no matter device what I used, I never did a sketch didn't require some adjustment to get the footprint to close.

 

[sputnam]

Per ANSI, the stair counts on both floors. You measure as if there is a floor there, instead of a stair. You do deduct the area that's open to the lower level. Don't over think it.

 

[Fernando]

By the way, we ought to have a thread on "Tricks of the Trade".

I. Measuring wheels are underrated.

CPO is America's Leading Online Tool Retailer | CPO Outlets

Shop CPO for premium tools from brands like DeWALT, Makita, SawStop, Bosch, and Husqvarna. As the leading retailer of reconditioned tools, we bring you top-quality at the best prices. Find the best deals on power tools and outdoor equipment here.

bit.ly

The 12" Milwaukee wheel is to be recommended. It measures to the 1/100 of a foot. It can also measure in meters. So, it is in fact capable of more accuracy than a measuring tape.

NOTES ON USE:

1. Don't be afraid to put the measuring wheel up on walls or wherever it makes sense.

2. Try to find some indication of a straight line along the wall (siding is useful) to allow you to run the wheel along something of a straight line.

3. You can get lightweight 8-16 foot pole extenders to mount the wheel pole on, so that you can use it on a second story. You will need to craft an adapter to set the angle to less than 90 degrees, so that you can run the wheel perpendicular to the wall.



Pros
1. It can be faster than a tape measure going around a house. NOTE: If you have the typical 12" diameter wheel (which Milwaukee is), when you hit a 90 degree inner corner, you have to stop and add 6 inches (the radius) to the measured length. Going around corners gives you an advantage: (1) Note the measurement at the corner, then (2) Don't reset the meter just keep going - all the way around. When you get to the starting point, take the final measurement and add 12" (2 x 6") for each inner corner. You then have an accurate circumference of the entire building - which will improve your accuracy even more.

2. You don't have to worry about tape sagging.

Cons

1. While you don't have the tape sagging issue, you will loose accuracy by not running the wheel along a perfectly straight line. (However, if you have trim to run it along, you are probably better off than with a wheel.

2. Laser can be more accurate, but they often require extra time to set up targets and mess with not being able to find the red dot [big problem, I don't care how good they say the new meters are.]

II. For those big 6K sf homes with complex architectural drawings.

1. Buy a lightweight but waterproof 18" x 24" marker board from Office Depot and a good $8 spring clamp from Home Depot. You can use this to mount large complex architectural drawings for when you have to go through the home and take measurements. It saves time. You can also get a plastic sheet to cover it in case of rain.

2. You can take the clamp and drawings off the board temporarily (keep the drawings clamped) and then use the board to run the measuring wheel on going down stairs. The board is wide enough to make slight turns with the wheel going down a twisting set of stairs. You hold the wheel with one hand and move the 18" x 24" board down the stairs in front of it, lifting the wheel as you move the board. You can probably do down two or three steps at a time, lifting at the step edges. You should be able to quickly get some pretty accurate step measurements this way.

III. Small measuring wheels.

There are also 6" measuring wheels, also from Milwaukee - but they are only 1/8" accurate. You will have to add 3" when you hit interior corners. However, they can come in handy if you are in one of those houses with too much junk around the walls to get the laser to the wall. You'd be surprised .... No, you wouldn't. Older people especially have a lot of junk. Having a small folded measuring wheel around can solve some problems quickly. - And you want to be both quick and accurate in measurements.

I never got use to measuring wheels. Just don't feel their as accurate as tape. I have to see the actual measurements.
In hard to measure places with obstacles, if owner there, I ask him/her to hold the tape. Owner always happy to oblige.