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How Far is too Far for Supervisor Appraiser

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It takes no stretch of the imagination to realize that if this practice is eliminated that it will only allow more incompetent appraisers to someday be released into the field. Sadly, they probably don't even know how shoddy their training is and if no changes are made they will assume that it is adequate enough. Unbelievable.
 
The AQB is trying to change this. See the thread, This is a MUST READ in the Improving the Profession forum. Its to late to submit comments to the AQB but read pages 12 & 13 of the AQB's exposure draft. On page 13, if this is adopted, it will limit supervising appraisers to no more than two trainees.

I personally think this may be a little to restrictive. I personally know an appraiser that does not do any appraisals for himself. He loves the profession so much that all he does is mentor new appraisers. I say mentor because he does so much more than supervise, and this gentleman will not accept anything less than excellent. He also has a current copy of USPAP that he carries like a bible.

Depending on how far along the trainess are in their training he can definitely mentor more than two people.
 
>>Does anyone on this forum, believe that it is possible to properly train with this much distance between Trainees and Supervisor. << A question, I presume.

I suppose I have to ask a little syntax first. "Trainee" takes on a whole lot of different meanings and levels of experience. I have a "trainee" who has appraised for 3 different people since 1994. Lack of a license reflects her physical condition and the problems associated with the disease Lupus. -She rarely works over 15 hr. a week, doesn't feel well enough to take the test, and some of her drugs dramatically affect her memory. She took the test once, but missed by 2 miserable points. My other two "trainees" have 3 years experience. One sits for the cert. res. test next friday. The other has amassed the needed hours but the next test he can sit for in this state is in October.

The supervision required of these trainees differs markedly from the supervision one would foist on a real green horn. Secondly, the nature of my business, which is almost entirely NON-MORTGAGE CO. means the farms and properties I appraise may be 60 miles away or more.

USPAP does not require nor should it, distance or other constraints. I am sure that appraisers in the panhandle of OKlahoma for instance cover several counties and likely 3-4 states. It is hardly 40 mi. from Elkhart, Ks to Texoma, Tx across the OK panhandle. I found nary an appraiser in Boise City, and 2 CG, 2 CR, and 2 trainees in Guymon in my state list. Are we saying some parts of the nation do not deserve to be appraised? The panhandle is about 200 mi. long.

With the modern conveniences of fax, computers, (just like you & i can communicate across the nation in this site), what's the biggie about finding a supervisor? Many of the old heads don't appraise 20 properties a year themselves. Most of their time is spent checking their help's work. THAT is the important part. I spent 20 years living in Arkansas and working in Tx, Ok, Ks, and Co. Drove 60-80K a year as a consultant. I see no reason why a supervisory appraiser who does just that, could not cover the work of several far flung appraisers. If each appraiser did 2 reports a week, emailed a compatible file to the supervisor for inspection, the supervisor could examine it, edit it, and if required, drive to the property, look at it, and sign the report. driving 200 mi. in a day is no step for a stepper. Nothing in USPAP requires a personal inspection, and it may not be necessary so long as supplemental standards do not require it. i.e.- strike out that in the URAR form & certification, which everyone above appears to be married to....Have any ever done a narrative? I'd love to see you come into divorce court with a URAR.
I know a certified appraiser how appraises mines and minerals exclusively. Probably has about 20 - 30 assignments a year. Rules trying to force x no. of trainees, etc. are meant for SFR, but I venture in dollars appraised, the non-SFR appraisals are 50% or more of the business. And the implications above about how much, and what load a supervisory appraiser can or does do confound that 1/2 the business rather than improve it.

ter
 
Terrel

Some of what you say does make a point, Though would you are anyone on this forum, take on 8 trainees within a 10 day period. and sign your name behind, anyone of these trainees; without riding with them on at least a few assignments, and checking all the information in public records/MLS, on both the subject and the comps?

Personally I would not sign my name behind another Certified appraiser, whos work I had seen in the field or detailI had not checked and whom I had not seen Him/Her work, before. Yes after I was sure that after found a Cerified or a trainee was confident, I may relax a bit. Then maybe I could review some of the work by E-Mail. But most likely, I would still have a problem with not being able to sit down with, or maybe the other appraiser down the hall while I reviewed it so I could, asked them something if I found a need. Maybe I just Like what I do to much, and maybe it is due to this is what supports my family, that I do not want to put my license/career on the line for $ that a trainee x miles could bring me if I just relax a bit.

But the bottom line of the begining of this subject was; 8 trainees who was formerly trainee, of a man that the State though should have his License Suspended. Hummm Yes I would trust those 8 with my license and to take on all 8 at once. I know just because he was bad, I sure he did not train them wrong, Yes I could trust those well trained 8, 274.5 miles away not to do anything wrong. NOT
 
Several months ago, we were in the process of rewriting our rules & regulations and I hoped that it would be an opportunity to do something meaningful. I tried to insert a statement in our rules that limited the number of trainees that a lic/cert appraiser could supervise to no more than two. Shot down big time! The board wouldn't even discuss it let alone do it. I tried to insert a regulation that prohibited any lic/cert appraiser from supervising trainees if the appraiser has had a valid disciplinary action within the prior two years. Shot down again. I tried to get the board to develop a short seminar that would require both the trainee and the supervising appraiser to attend togeather or at least a seminar for supervising appraisers that outlines and defines the supervising appraiser's responsibilities and obligations - shot down again!

We do have the requirement that an appraiser must "directly supervise" an appraisal assistant and I would think that FL would have some similar wording.

I'll keep on plugging away, but it would be nice to get a little support from our local appraisers.

Oregon Doug
 
Though I am only 1 local Appraiser, I would love to give the Board support, I would review and if given the power, I would walk in the office locally in question and review the files for them, and some in question send to the state for further review(wishfull thinking). Another wishful thought, is if the Board was to call in the Supervisor, to see if he knew the area well enough to do an appraisal in this area. I would gladly help the board with questions and answers about the different areas, and be at the meeting with 2 to 4 Certified Appraisers from this area, to confirm the information. I would even bring the Popcorn while we watch him squirm.
Though I might also enjoy the Board calling in the trainees to asked them about the training they are getting and the key question with in excess of 30 offices in the area, why did you all go to a certified person so far from your area?

Though I would have to disagree, to a point 2 trainees is limiting, for me, though now I have none. My son is 17 and love to have him work with me part time when he is of age, during college. Though he already now more than many trainees with 2+ years experience, during summer vaction he rides with me walks through homes, if it ok with owner, helps me measure, ect. When I get married I might have my wife become a trainee to help out when over loaded. If I do this and business grows with only 2 I would have to let a family member go. Ok which should I fire? I think that at the most 5 trainees, should be a limit. But I am sure someone would say why not 6.
 
Dan - While no individual rule/regulation is right for everyone all the time, having no rules/regulations dosen't seem to work for anyone. Appraisal regulation is difficult because of the differences between residential and non residential appraisal. The rules/regulations need to be written in such a manor so as apply to each and I'm not sure that always works very well. Could we to develop seperate rules for for residential & non residential appraisers? Wouldn't that make life more complicated for everyone?

I think that the real answer is within us all - if we each perform our appraisal activity in a professional, ethical and logical manor, the whole issue of rules and regulations becomes meaningless. Since that ain't gonna happen, we need some rules and regulations but they jus' ain't gonna fit every time.

Jus' keep on keepin' on, Oregon Doug
 
We have the new "two trainee rule" in NC effective 08/01/2002. Remember, this does not limit how many appraisers you may have, only how many TRINEES you may have. Once your trainee can move up to a license or certification...you may then get another trainee.

Makes sense to me. This encouages appraisers to move up to a license (or certification) and allows the supervisor to then bring in a NEW trainee.

The appraiser you can adequately and porperly TRAIN mopre than two people at a time would be a rare exception. Trianing, if done properly is time consuming, expensive, slows down your turn time and is a huge responsibility.

Poor training and supervision have resulted in far too many appraisers who simply don't know what they are doing.


Bob
 
Dan has identified a problem that has, apparently, always existed. There should be limit to the number of "trainees" one appraiser can adequately supervise. (In managment classes it was called "span of control".)

Terrell and Oregon Doug have pointed out two major challenges to curing the problem. One, the degree of supervision may be different according to location, personality and the trainee's progressive experience level. Two, it's very difficult to change the status quo.

Bob offers a glimmer of hope that change to the system can be made. Whether it's effective or not, only time will tell, but at least it's movement! (Wait a minute.......that's in N. Carolina?!? Holey moley! But that's the good ole boy system personified........lol.)

I myself am a newly certified appraiser in Florida (thank you, thank you very much). My life as a trainee was primarily with one of the supervisor types Dan started this thread with. My training was provided by another trainee (he had been at it for over four months, so who could be more qualified?). After two months, I was "good to go" and was turned loose upon an unsuspecting real estate world. Thankfully, the fellow that "trained" me was a perfectionist and taught me how to be thorough. Not once did my supervisor accompany me on an inspection. The office grew to ten plus trainees with two in a neighboring county 75 miles away. If you volunteered to train new people, your pay was increased 10%, which was taken from the new trainee's pay. (Wouldn't want to cut into the boss's green fees or Porsche payments.) I escaped last year. New supervisor's first order of business was to ensure I became certified as soon as possible and paid for my training to do so. The old office now has 15 trainees assigned to one supervisor and nothing has changed. This information will be forwarded to the state board this week for their investigation.

There may be no clear cut "best" answer to this problem. However, we all need to recognize dead fish when we smell it and instead of holding our nose and walking away, let's take out the garbage. I'm ashamed that it took me this long to do something. Those in that old office became friends and I rationalized I didn't want to see them out of work. But I finally came to the realization that this guy will continue to take advantage of new, naive trainees unless someone stands up to be counted.

Sorry for the length of this post. Therapy, I reckon. Thanks for listenin'.
 
So Wally
your the new guy on the block and now that you have learned from ex-boss and have been able to compile the necessary time; jobs; and finally Certification, your pay back is to turn him in 8O and according to you he is now "Dead Fish" :?: What you didn't say is if the guy is really a bad appraiser :?: Your just jello that he made money off you :?: and did that whole operation go BAD right after you left :?:
perhaps if it's time to take out the garbage (your words) we still might be missing some, if your still here.

I don't mean to be crass, but your throwing stones right after you get what you want, to me that represents a back stabin worm, everything went terribly wrong right after YOU left. Sorry I can't buy it :!:


Your what I would consider to be a "TAKER" - hurray for you and screw everybody else; your from the ME generation; me, me, me.


8)
 
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