How Far is too Far for Supervisor Appraiser

[Wally Jones]

jtrotta,

Thank you for your observations.

I began working for this individual with my eyes wide shut. As a complete newcomer, having just finished training, shelling out the bucks to get set up for business and having mounting bills and a family to feed, I was very anxious to get to work. All of my focus was on learning the details of every aspect of the appraisal process. As I mentioned in my post, I learned nothing from the certified appraiser, as he delegated all of the training to a fellow trainee. I didn't say he was a bad appraiser, because I have never seen an appraisal done by him nor received any guidance from him on how or how not to do an appraisal. I didn't bring up the other questionable practices of the company because it wasn't pertinent to the subject of this thread. No, that whole operation did not go BAD after I left. It continues to be what it always has been. I am definitely guilty of being a party to the BAD operation since, even as a trainee, I began to see unethical operation. So, I had a choice. Turn myself in (which, I guess would have been the noble thing to do, but hindsight is 20/20), continue to work under unacceptable conditions, find another supervisor (which took a few months to do).

Yes, I understand how it may appear that I am a back stabbing worm who wants to eliminate the competition that was my former benefactor.

What's the best option, here? Thank my lucky stars he at least offered to be my mentor and just get on with life and forget about him? Beg him to take me back? Leave this field altogether because I am obviously an ingrate who will never be able to achieve success unless I remove my rose colored glasses?

Even though the above is tinged with sarcasm, I'm serious about wanting to hear opinions on how to proceed. I made a mistake in going to work for him (there's that hindsight thing again). I compounded the mistake by continuing to work for him as long as I did. Will the hat trick be to leave it alone or to do something about it?

I'm sorry you don't know me except from my poor attempts at expressing my frustrations on a computer screen. I'm over fifty years old and despise the so-called "me" generation attitude. To be accused of being part of it takes me aback and has caused me to rethink my entire view of my short appraisal career to date.

Thanks for the jolt.

Wally Jones

 

[jtrotta]

Wally,
thanks for the spirited response; as in any business there is good & evil, not to say the guy you worked for (was/wasn't) evil, it would appear to me he was delegating as is known in the business industry. Prior to opening my own shop I worked for several Independents with over several people per operation. Yes a few of them helped along the way; but none of the people (certified boss) I worked for offered one bit of help, they offered opinions, but left the final decision to me. Perhaps I'm looking at it backwards, but I felt this is where I learned, by reading the guidelines provided by both the Fed & State. As you well know, assistence in this field is only limited by the providers.
Having been involved for many years now, I can say that this forum offers some of the best & worst of the business. As for the "me" generation, I will assume that your peer did not lead you astray, as you have succeeded in the business, so the question comes about - did he really do you an injustice or are you now taking an opportunity to take a free shot ?? And join the in crowd of go get em types on this thread ??
As has been noted here, there are limited restrictions regarding how to handle "trainees". Also, one of the points made is this is now a computer generated business and anyone has the right to conduct their business as they see fit. My first boss calls upon my services every once in a while, he is 60 miles away, I never see him - we communicate via computer. He currently has a few trainees working for him now and reviews all of their work via computer. Unless your with your boss 24/7 how can you pass judgement ?? First off your in an akward position, you are viewing his/her business from inside, your opinion is biased. You need to have an unbiased opinion of what is or what is not satisfactory. If your second boss is or was aware of your first boss and his way of operation, he could just conceal portions of the operation and you would be none the wiser.

All I'm saying, is be careful what you wish for - it has a nasty way of comming back at cha.

8)

 

[Nancy in Friday Harbor]

Wally,

The one consistant thing I've noted about the members of "The Forum" is that we don't have any trouble telling others what we really think--good, bad, or offensive!!

You mentioned you are recently certified in the state of Florida. Congratulations!

The tragedy of the lack of accountability and standards for supervisory appraisers is that many appraisers never "get it" that there is any other way to appraise. For those that do, and your post makes it appear this is the case with you, the questions of "what to do" are really difficult.

I guess my first question to myself, were I in your position, is "Have I learned bad habits and techniques from this supervisor?" "Am I really turning out the work product of which I am capable?" "Was the trainee who was thrust into the role of supervisor/trainer really experienced enough to teach me what I need to know to be the kind of appraiser I want to be?"

There are a number of appraisers from Florida who appear to be very knowledgeable and are regular posters here. Frank, Pam, and Judy are the ones who come immediately to mind. While I can't speak with certainty for them, I'll bet that any one of them (or all three) would be happy to talk to you and take a look at your work. If they can't, they probably know someone in your immediate area who could help. I'm not saying a whole new trainer, but a fellow appraiser who's got more experience that you could talk to or bounce ideas off of or........

Frank, as a member of the Florida board, might be very interested in hearing about your "supervisor" and might have suggestions about how to procede.

No appraiser who is serious about appraising as a profession -- rather than as a job -- wants to see poorly trained and ill equiped appraisers out there. It hurts all of us. It has been my experience that most appraisers are very helpful with information and advice if you're willing to really try.

Good Luck!!

Nancy

 

[Wally Jones]

jtrotta,

Thanks again for taking the time to provoke me into actually thinking for myself rather than simply regurgitate what others would like me to think. (But it does make my brain hurt!)

You're right (again!) about the fact that due to my former boss' "hands off" attitude, I was forced to learn about the business any way I could. I ordered textbooks, scoured the internet, questioned everything and generally drove everyone nuts until I found the answers (still do that). But I have no delusions that this was his way of "teaching" me how to fend for myself, although that was the outcome. As for taking a "free shot" and joining the "in crowd" to go get him, I'll eventually do what I feel is the right thing to do. It would certainly be easy to fall into a "witchhunt" mentality and seek and destroy anyone supervising over a couple of trainees, without regard to how effectively they may be doing so. Obviously, this won't help the profession. But if the ones who are allowing poor appraisal practices and teach (if only by example) little or no ethics are permitted to continue unchallenged, I don't see how that helps the profession either. So, I reckon if I determine there is a need to do so, I'll make a statement, throw a rock, hunt one witch and continue to let my conscience guide me.

Nancy,

Thank you for the comments. You're right - no shyness on this forum! But that's a good thing. I have been with the new "boss" for about a year and one of the first things we discussed was my concern over any possible bad habits. He has been a tough taskmaster and sure seems like he can find even the smallest error! Even when we both agree on an issue, he questions it and plays devil's advocate until he's certain I'm confident that what I did was correct. The biggest thing I've learned is that I have a lot to learn! I think it's what I love about this career.


Wally Jones
(Now rigging for silent running for awhile............)

 

[Pamela Crowley (Florida)]

To all,

Those of us here on this forum are made up of many good to excellent appraisers. I know that many started with good mentors that were ethical and taught you well.

Personally, of my first two supervisors, one was ethical and tried to teach on the few orders from his clients that he would let me work on; the other one had a self-proclaimed motto of "Lie 'til you die" and actually told me to do things unethically - 'that's just the way it's done' and 'everybody else does' and 'they won't give us any more order if you don't make the value they want'. He was also the one with more clients and more assignments. (HIS clients are NOT on MY approved client list) I would go to the books to learn the right way and take my name back off of reports after he had changed them to what they should not be. After a while, he used to laugh about signing a report I had done without looking at it and say he never had to worry about one of mine (my own clients and I wouldn't let him change it).

I've had at least four trainees that had started elsewhere that refused to learn how to actually appraise and thought I was nuts for verifying data or including a screened porch on a comp when doing that would lower the value below what the lender wanted. Their priority, after being in one of the appraisal sweat shops of numerous trainees, was "hit the number needed by whatever means necessary and get it out the door". Whatever it takes - fraud included. Speed and hitting the number wanted were the only priorities taught there. THAT IS WHAT THEY WERE TAUGHT! They don't want to know any different because that would lower their income. I'm not the only one that refused to bend my own ethics and struggled to learn the correct ways of doing this job. Unfortunately, I'm one of the rare ones that did just that. Believe me, ones like me are not welcome at those sweat shops! It appears that Wally is another one like me and from his posts, I will respect his opinions.

Do I turn myself in for the few reports that I signed when I first started out that my supervisor changed and told me it was perfectly fine to do things that way? I had a strong real estate background and wanted to be an appraiser more that anything! It didn't take long for me to start taking my name back off of reports and that took longer for me to fill in my log to be able to become certified but, I was true to myself and constantly went to the books to learn.

You all KNOW the good and the bad in your area. It is now at a point where the bad ones are taking down the whole profession. Those that turn their backs and do not DO SOMETHING to stop this are a huge part of the problem. Call it a witch hunt if you choose. I call it a civic duty.

 

[Dan/Fla]

I read a some of the last few post, I have been in this business more that 8 years, I was test ready for my certification, after the 1st 2 years, I knew I could take the class and past the State test, truth is I took the class and past the class test, ordered my packet to fill out from the state. Then I guess I am my worst critic, and asked do you think you know enough to be Certified, the answer was an honest answer NO. I waited till I felt I felt I was qualified, and waited another 2 years. I spent the next few years learning and I am still learning today that is why I read this forum. I tell you this for this reason.

My 1st Job was with the Appraiser that I am now happy to say, has now been suspended by the State of Florida. Yes I will admit at the time I was happy to find an Appraiser to hire me, but he too had a trainee, go with me on my 1st 2 inspections, though the second one she stayed in the car an let me do it on my own. Then I was given assignments to do by my self, over the next 9 months I did an average of 12 a week and covered 14 counties. Never typed one report those 9 months, all reports were cloned and the lady now his wife type all reports she could type up a report start to finish in an average of 20 minutes, to day I still can come nowhere close to that speed. My final job for them was a home that to this day felt the home itself had no value due to condition, but when I saw the report the value was $80,000, I refused to sign the report. Was told you have to understand we can not lose clients, for 1 minor report, these clients pay all our bills, he said fine if you refuse to sign you drove all that way and spent all the time for nothing because this report is going in my way. Yes, I am glad he is gone, if he had his way I would doing reports today his way. I fill that this is a Professional Profession, and my job is to give my clients a Good Honest report. True I am human and I do and will make mistakes, but they will not be dishonest, leave details out just to make the numbers. I fill that this man and all the Hit the Numbers offices give you and me a bad name. Yes I will celebrate every one these appraisers, which lose their license it, will make me happy and my life as appraiser easier when clients can not fine anyone who will just hit the numbers at all cost. I personally hope that it might bring a little more respect for all of us, in this profession. Yes I can understand a former employee hoping that his/her former dishonest appraiser getting, their just due. 7 years have gone by and Yes I still feel sick thinking what I could be today if I back down that day. Yes it was hard to get an honest appraiser to hire me, but I found one, I started from the I No nothing, told him so But I promise I will do anything and everything to learn, Yes I worked many extra hours, he went with me on my assignments, many times instead of typing my report, during the day I rode on his and another Certified in our office, talked and asked more questions that I could ever count, then when they left for home, I would sit in the office half the night typing my reports. My son spent many and hours playing the office at night while I worked. Yes I made good money for my 1st Company, but I paid for it later. Yes I have seen a couple of his hires now Certified, working the same way they were trained hit the Number and make the Money. Yes I feel for them but knowing what I know and have heard from them if I get the chance to be able to prove it I will forward it straight to the State. Some of you might think this is a mean way to think, but I know some good honest appraisers who use to think leave it alone they will get theirs one day without my help, now think the same way.

For me I love what I do it give me time to do some things through the week, I make a better that national average. Made some good friends, I could not think of anything I would rather be doing than this. If I won the Millions in the Lotto, I might slow down but I know I would not quit, I enjoy it.

 

[robrtm3]

Hi,

Please correct me if I am wrong, the one thing that appraisers refuse to ackownledge, especially if they are a supervisory appraiser and have 2 or more trainees is the "inspection of the property" certification.

If a Supervisory Appraiser hires trainees, and the Supervisory Appraiser does not perform an inspection of the property and then the Supervisory Appraiser checks the "did" inspect property; or as I have seen in many reviews of appraisal reports; if the "supervisory appraiser" signs the report as the "Appraiser, and they have not, they are lying.
[/b]

 

[jtrotta]

Pam,
Ethics; in any business you either have them or you don't. I don't believe if someone teaches you "Ethics" that you will change your life style or mind thought. So, we are left to make our own decision as to which way we will travel in life, it's either the High Rd or the Low Rd :!:


Wally
so are you retired Navy :?: always below the water level (sub) :?:
I would expect you deciding factor to be of your own mind - I'm not trying to make you change your mind, just think before you do. And if this bad guy wasn't around to teach you where would you be now :?: :?:

SOunds to me like you've been taught well, as you now understand the concept of; an appraisal; ethics; how to run an office; and the rules under which your conduct as an appraiser can be scrutenized. Does it get any better than that :?: :?:

Chow for Now 8)

 

[Wally Jones]

jtrotta,

Retired Air Force, actually. Sorry if I confused you with the sub reference and looks like I didn't stay silent very long. You alone won't make me change my mind, but again, I appreciate the view from the other side of the coin. If that guy had not been around to "teach" me, I would have found another (perhaps worse, perhaps better). The items you list were not learned from that individual. That ethics thing, well, see your comments above to Pam. Does it get any better than that? It sure did!

See ya!

 

[jtrotta]

Wally, there are many ways of being taught; obviously the man taught you well, you just haven't taken the time to realize what he taught.

As noted in my statement to Pam - you either take the High Rd or the Low Rd - you decided to take the High Rd (I think)

Wally you state; "the items you list were not learned from that individual" well then enlighten me, whom did you learn from and who taught them :?:
Maybe by fending for yourself, it made you better understand the correct way to do an appraisal. If he influenced you (as some others have admitted to) then you can say his approach was influenced by money? # of orders? etc. - so, perhaps in the end, his way of teaching wasn't all that bad :?: OR maybe it was.

8)