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July 2008 ASC Q&a- Wink Wink Comp Comp
- Thread starter Mike Kennedy
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Workbox
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Do you think that could ever happen? I like that Idea.I am leaning toward the idea that all appraisers should have to pass the equivalent of the USPAP instructor's exam.
DWiley
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I did not say that USPAP could not be changed. I said that if one wants to make a valid argument about USPAP compliance one must use the definitions actually in the document and not just create a definition that fits a personal agenda.
Really? Just how does a TOC relate to comp checks?
Workbox
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It was used as an example pertaining to the option of and determination of SOW from what GH had posted. Geesh.Really? Just how does a TOC relate to comp checks?
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Put me on ignore. I wasn't addressing you anyway.
"The" solution to "all this?" I guess that means "the problem" is some little babies are unhappy that life isn't handed to them on a platter want some magical entity make it all better.
No. TAF is into "minimum" standards.
Bearslide
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The Appraisal Foundation: Authorized by Congress as the source of appraisal standards and appraiser qualifications.
Let's take a look at what I have emphasized in red.
1) Congress is doing a truly superlative job in every facet of Amertican life in which they get involved, aren't they? When you dig deep, you find Congress in bed with lenders and their lobbyists. To qoute Joyce (I owe ya a copyright fee) "For the lenders, by the lenders"
2) Standards have consistently been changed to reflect what the lenders want. About the only part of USPAP that in any way protects the appraiser, as well as the public, are the Ethics rules.
TAF, being the good ol boys club, will do nothing that would in any way interefere with the interests of the lenders. It is (so they think) in the interests of the lenders and their strong-arm men, the loan officers and mortgage brokers, to get free appraisals (which is exactly what a comp check is). Expect no help from TAF. Not going to happen. They are not going to come out with any policy that interferes with lenders - they will not bite the hand the feeds them.
That said - you DO have some defense against comp checks if you dig deep. First, you may not accept an order with a pre-determined value, and you may not perform an appraisal with bias. Loan officers not only don't understand that, they don't care. They only want to do their deal. We come from the opposite side of the fence - we only want to report the characteristics of the property and render our opinion of value. (I am, for the moment, leaving Skip out of this)
The State Boards would have a better chance of taking a stand on this issue of comp checks and they could, quite simply, by stating that an appraiser may NOT accept any order with a value listed on the order - not loan amount, estimated value, needed value, purchase price. NO VALUE listed. That doesn't regulate lenders - it says what WE can not do. And what we CAN NOT do is our best defense.
So - what to do? No matter what you do, you will never get rid of the value shoppers and the number hitters. But you can trim them down. All you can do, under the present system, is say NO. But you can soften it, you can tell them that you can't violate USPAP and accept an order with a pre-determined value, that you can't begin to give them an idea of value without getting inside the property and doing all the necessary research to find the truly comparable sales - BUT - that you can give their borrower the most thoroughly researched, solid appraisal, and that in this current market, that is the very best thing they can do for their borrower.
You CAN go to your State Board, and ask them to take a stand. You CAN go to your State Banking Commisssion, your Senators and Congressmen, your state representatives and your Governor - and ask them all to take a stand.
Absolutely nothing will change if good people don't stand and let their voices be heard. Way overdue, wouldn't you say? So......start attending your Board meetings, let them see you are there..and then start making your points. Concerted effort is the ticket.
Let's take a look at what I have emphasized in red.
1) Congress is doing a truly superlative job in every facet of Amertican life in which they get involved, aren't they? When you dig deep, you find Congress in bed with lenders and their lobbyists. To qoute Joyce (I owe ya a copyright fee) "For the lenders, by the lenders"
2) Standards have consistently been changed to reflect what the lenders want. About the only part of USPAP that in any way protects the appraiser, as well as the public, are the Ethics rules.
TAF, being the good ol boys club, will do nothing that would in any way interefere with the interests of the lenders. It is (so they think) in the interests of the lenders and their strong-arm men, the loan officers and mortgage brokers, to get free appraisals (which is exactly what a comp check is). Expect no help from TAF. Not going to happen. They are not going to come out with any policy that interferes with lenders - they will not bite the hand the feeds them.
That said - you DO have some defense against comp checks if you dig deep. First, you may not accept an order with a pre-determined value, and you may not perform an appraisal with bias. Loan officers not only don't understand that, they don't care. They only want to do their deal. We come from the opposite side of the fence - we only want to report the characteristics of the property and render our opinion of value. (I am, for the moment, leaving Skip out of this)
The State Boards would have a better chance of taking a stand on this issue of comp checks and they could, quite simply, by stating that an appraiser may NOT accept any order with a value listed on the order - not loan amount, estimated value, needed value, purchase price. NO VALUE listed. That doesn't regulate lenders - it says what WE can not do. And what we CAN NOT do is our best defense.
So - what to do? No matter what you do, you will never get rid of the value shoppers and the number hitters. But you can trim them down. All you can do, under the present system, is say NO. But you can soften it, you can tell them that you can't violate USPAP and accept an order with a pre-determined value, that you can't begin to give them an idea of value without getting inside the property and doing all the necessary research to find the truly comparable sales - BUT - that you can give their borrower the most thoroughly researched, solid appraisal, and that in this current market, that is the very best thing they can do for their borrower.
You CAN go to your State Board, and ask them to take a stand. You CAN go to your State Banking Commisssion, your Senators and Congressmen, your state representatives and your Governor - and ask them all to take a stand.
Absolutely nothing will change if good people don't stand and let their voices be heard. Way overdue, wouldn't you say? So......start attending your Board meetings, let them see you are there..and then start making your points. Concerted effort is the ticket.
George Hatch
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- Jan 15, 2002
- Professional Status
- Certified General Appraiser
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- California
Woodyva,
Again, I'd remind you that nobody is preventing you from inserting a TOC in those reports. The system you oppose just doesn't support the addendum form you want to use to do it. That's got nothing to do with the SOW of those assignments.
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Bearslide,
Name one change that's been made to USPAP that benefits the lenders at the expense of the public. Or appraisers.
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Steven,
Instructors course for everyone? There's no way. The last I heard, the pass rate for the people who had already been teaching it was only ~50%. You're talking about whittling the entire appraisal profession down by at least that much. Half the people on this thread wouldn't make that cut, and they're all more savvy than many of the appraisers who come through my courses.
Again, I'd remind you that nobody is preventing you from inserting a TOC in those reports. The system you oppose just doesn't support the addendum form you want to use to do it. That's got nothing to do with the SOW of those assignments.
------------------
Bearslide,
Name one change that's been made to USPAP that benefits the lenders at the expense of the public. Or appraisers.
-------------------
Steven,
Instructors course for everyone? There's no way. The last I heard, the pass rate for the people who had already been teaching it was only ~50%. You're talking about whittling the entire appraisal profession down by at least that much. Half the people on this thread wouldn't make that cut, and they're all more savvy than many of the appraisers who come through my courses.
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PropertyEconomics
Elite Member
- Joined
- Jun 19, 2007
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- Certified General Appraiser
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- New Mexico
What party line are you saying everyone is espousing? Your posts appear full of accusations but short on substance. Perhaps that is the true meaning of ******** ... I looked it up in the dictionary and unfortunately its not there.
So whats the party line Sandy .. spell it out in clear detail. Pretend you are preparing an appraisal for court .. lets see how good you are at making your points. So far ... Ive not read much from you.
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Stone
Elite Member
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- Feb 1, 2002
- Professional Status
- Certified General Appraiser
- State
- Wisconsin
Sadly, that is what this seems to be coming down to. The odd thing is that some people here continually berate the concept of taking personal responsibility and saying no.
The best part, however, is that several people consider TAF to be the magical entity that can hold their hands and make it all better. That's a good one.
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