Low fees

[Bemis Pownall]

HEY MIKE

SHARE YOUR SECRETS WITH US SO WE CAN ALL PROSPER.!

 

[Head Surfer]

Reminder to all, our posting rules:

http://appraisersforum.com/rules.htm

Have respect for each other. If you don't believe someone, don't call them a liar, just don't believe them and let it go, or respectfully disagree and state your opinions why without calling names.

Also remember that some people are "trolling" trying to stir up trouble. Don't take the bait (not saying that happened in this topic, but it does happen).

We'll keep this topic open for now, but if there's any more name calling we'll have to lock it.

 

[Tim Hicks (Texas)]

I have laid out of this post because I saw the impending dogpile. I am finally learning. It is possible to make that much hay. I don't doubt it for a minute. I know appraisers that have made $300k+ for years. One in particular always makes that much because he never saw a number he could not hit, but that does not mean you can not be honest and make that much. Hopefully, you meant the first year man "billed" $195k and that was not his commission. Be very wary of your trainees. Believe me, I would not even begin to trust my brother (I might trust my mom or dad) with an appraisal report. I was the first trainee for a small company. I was very dilligent and successful. Because of my success, they hired other trainees and I had a hand in training them and watching them. I was appalled at how little they worried about "doing the correct thing" since it was not their name on the report. They won't notice it is a sun room, just include it in the living area. they won't notice it is a garage conversion, just include it in the living area. They won't know it is an unfinished attic, just include it in the living area. I need this home to be 200 SF bigger to make the numbers work, so I will "mismeasure" this house. Oh, I left the pool, barn, workshop, etc on comp #1 out because it would kill the numbers. Oh, I did not see those lower sales in the addition, because they need $xx,zzz and I did not look that low. It was enlightening to me, scary enlightening. So, make sure you trust your trainees and double check them anyway. Hopefully, they have the fear of Mike in them. Please take this as advise and not as criticism. There is nothing worse than answering for another persons mistakes.

The only other thing in you post that disturbs me is your reference to other appraisers ability to recognize appreciation. That is is disturbing because it assumes that other appraisers are less knowledgable than you. It is impossible to be an appraiser in America and not ever have a valuation come in lower than a sales price or estimated value. There is too much hope and anticipation involved in the real estate market to cloud any owner, buyer, seller or RE agent's thinking. In this area, a RE agent will try to get the same value on home with no updates or needs updates as the home down the street that was completely remodeled. Not every home is "top of the line". Plus, if you have three sales that closed the week or month before, I would be hard pressed to say there would be any appreciation whatsoever. Hopefully, you were not inferring that you never come in low on an appraisal. I do, more often than I would want to admit and I do a large volume because my clients respect my opinion and know I explore every option. Yet, still I make even my most loyal clients mad when I don't deliver what they expect.

Last, all you newbies out there move to VA. Everyone notify Arkansas. VA is now the "land of opportunity". We need to recommend migration to VA to all those new appraisers fresh out of school looking for their pot of gold. Mike, needs some good old fashioned competition in his town. It will not take long. Appraisers will get wind of the amount of business in his town and they will come a callin'. Next, how long before one of his trainess will start to realize, "Man, I don't need Mike, I can do this without him and after all so and so really likes me anyway. All I gotta do is offer this service for $50 less and they are mine." Greed destroys loyalty every time. 8O

 

[Mike Garrett RAA]

What Michael said flies in the face of reason. A trainee making $195,000 doing appraisals. That is what I question, along with the reasonableness of a trainee doing 600+ appraisals a year. It might be the case and it might not but in any event it is the very thing the AQB is looking into.

Sure is interesting that someone can do a very high volume of appraisal work AND be a multi-million dollar real estate salesman AND have time to write a book telling those of us who have been actively doing this for many years what we are doing wrong.

I wish you well, Michael.

 

[Mike Simpson]

Yeah...and Butcher, and Baker & Candlestick Maker!

...and what's the fee split...for cryin-out-loud, I hope its better than 75%!

I'm not allergic to money & I'm not beyond trying to learn better & faster ways to become more efficient, however, the "green" I'm smellin (as Michael puts it) is comin from the horse pasture.

I welcome the proposed changes by the AQB...I believe these changes (if implemented) will be the best thing that's happened to our profession in more than 10 years. As far as I'm concerned it can't happen soon enough.

-Mike

 

[Dick Hemry GAA]

I would think both IRS & AQB would be interested in Michaels operation.
Sounds a litle like a "sweat shop" for "guaranteed" appraisals, but who knows!

 

[Michael Reilly]

Many moons ago I made a similar comment on appraiser production and that based on a new but relatively simple system change appraisers in the system doubled the production of a seasoned appraiser operating under the traditional model. Based on what I am hearing today maybe I was wrong I think the system has allowed them to triple production. Anyway the entire posting public on this forum jumped on my back for it just like you are doing to this guy. If he is doing it right then more power to him if not then it will catch up with him sooner or later and one-way or another it's either his problem or yours, his if he is doing it wrong and yours if he's doing it right. In our model an appraisal (appraiser & assistant) team works 248 day completes 4.3 jobs on average per day. If you use an average fee of $275+ (appraisers on the HUD roster usually have a higher average) that’s about $300,000 gross billings per team and the appraiser has 1 whole month off each year plus all of his or hers Sundays and every other Saturday. That’s reality! The appraiser never has to check the box did inspect when he was never there and commit fraud because the appraiser is always at the subject property. So what Mike claims is somewhat believable in terms of dollars but it appears we will not get the story or system now that you all say it can't be. Next time allow your investigative minds to work properly and question the issue correctly, you’ll get more out of it.

My two cents
Mike-NY

 

[Michael Reilly]

Excuse my grammar, very busy today, sorry.

Mike- NY

 

[Willie]

Mike you speak of a model and many moons ago. Did it ever work? Or is it like the "model" that the business school teacher told the class in the movie Back to School? Immediatley the old real world business man, Rodney Dangerfied, speaks up and tells the class how it really is? They were talking about going to zoning boards, buying permits, plans, specs., origination fees, and doing things by the books. Rodney spoke up and said, "you forgot about the fees required to grease the local politcians pocket". Did your method ever really work?

 

[Farm Gal]

Mike:
What SOME of the posters were saying is that there is a difference between plugging in sales and "doing an appraisal" as a true researched product. I defy anyone not from my peculiar market to understand why some sub-nighborhoods sell for values wildly disparate from others within as close as a 1/4 mile radius.

I am not sure I always understand: but I can clearly define some areas where there is a boundary that exists if no where else than in the minds of the market.

Technology and the ability to sift school districts, zip codes and marketing areas as defined by census tract, flood zones and other issues are not the whole picture in SOME markets. Quantifying sales areas is more than just a fast track MLS search in this area!

I GREATLY want to be able to increase my efficiency. I want to learn how to do more better and at the same time:

If it is all that freaking easy to do what I do to a level acceptable to the lenders then they don't need ME: it is this what drives the fear and anguish that erupts when some one announces their great efficiency. AVM, or mr. i can do 4.5 a day BY MY SELF. causes some of us hearburn.

So I am still hopefully awaiting some clue(s) as to how to DO this with great accuracy while maintaining ethical efficacy.

I suspect I will grow greyer before someone hands me a model that works in MY area :roll: