More On Free Comp Checks

[fifteen]

Can you find that law that states an appraisal must not be numerically expressed in written form? No? Well there's your truth.

BTW - USPAP isn't law around here last I checked.

Still can't find that law that says appraisals must be expressed in written form, huh?:laugh:

I wonder if any of you clients follow these threads, oh never mind your clients like numbers whispered in the wind......

 

[fifteen]

No, as I've stated over and over, a numerical value is also expressed by talking. I'm sure sign language can also qualify. Proof is saying that value or range of value to more than one person, someone to bear witness. As I've maintained, a spoken value is the same as an appraisal, the difference is verbally it can't be proven in a court of law and yet the appraisal document can. An appraisal absolutely needs a numerical value expressed somewhere in the equation. It can't just be words. Saying "benchmark value" is not the same as actually saying a number to express that benchmark value. A number must be expressed or the appraisal qualification falls apart.
You guys have lost touch with what was actually said as these points have already been covered.
:new_all_coholic:
Ohh and btw - if I express a numerical value in conversation - the research is done and that value is there. So, having to go to court to defend a verbal appraisal has never happened. However if it did and the only proof was a phone conversation a year ago, what would you plead? Never happened, or I don't recall or would you say YES!! I did !! and pay a huge fine and lose your license. But hey, it's worth it to prove your point - right? Keep your cred even if you're not an appraiser anymore, it was worth it to be totally honest and upright and admit to it, even if they have a trumped up fabrication they're throwing at you. Yep. Cause you're smart and you know the difference between an appraisal and a value suggestion when spoken by an appraisal professional. Way to go dude !!

Apprazur .. I see you are ignoring that express also means the spoken word, and that the spoken words you used were in fact in referenced to a benchmark value .... I wish you would address those points.

Your ignoring them is not making them go away.

 

[PropertyEconomics]

No, as I've stated over and over, a numerical value is also expressed by talking. I'm sure sign language can also qualify. Proof is saying that value or range of value to more than one person, someone to bear witness. As I've maintained, a spoken value is the same as an appraisal, the difference is verbally it can't be proven in a court of law and yet the appraisal document can. An appraisal absolutely needs a numerical value expressed somewhere in the equation. It can't just be words. Saying "benchmark value" is not the same as actually saying a number to express that benchmark value. A number must be expressed or the appraisal qualification falls apart.
You guys have lost touch with what was actually said as these points have already been covered.
:new_all_coholic:

Well you are slowly making progress ... now you admit you spoke a value .. but now there must be a witness ... man you are a real piece of work. Id love to tell you what I really think at this moment, but I dont want to get thrown off the forum. However I will say that your argments and changes and parsing in this thread are simply pathetic.
Bear witness to that because you say you said you did it but you are going to lie in court ... I believe Apprazur that is perjury .... and again your ethics and moral character are showing. Now its a "value suggestion" .... MY GOD ... do you read what you post before you press save?

 

[Hamlet]

Can you find that law that states an appraisal must not be numerically expressed in written form? No? Well there's your truth.

BTW - USPAP isn't law around here last I checked.

I never said there was any such law. An appraisal can be expressed in written form or verbally. You are the one saying that an appraisal must be numerically expressed in the written form with blood witness under a blue moon and that is the law, according to Garp. Geez... I guess you aren't going to be able to enlighten us with that law are you?

BTW....USPAP is law in my state as in many states. Also, in my state you do not have to be an appraiser to perform an appraisal. If you are an appraiser, however, you'd best make sure you are USPAP compliant.

I love it..."value suggestions"...this is getting more and more bizzare. Did I say I miss Genteel?

 

[George Hatch]

Forgive me for not wading through the train wreck, but it looks to me like one side of the debate here is attempting to cling to the notion that an appraisal must consists of a numerical value. If I've interpreted that incorrectly then my comment below - which I'm confident has probably already been made - can be disregarded.

An appraisal need not be expressed as a number, per se. It can also take the form of a range of values, or as a relationship to a previous value or numerical benchmark.

That's part of the definition and there's basically no room for debate about that. The definition was written in that manner precisely to prevent some of the verbal acrobatics that seem to be in use in this thread.

As for measuring what you're doing based on your chances of getting caught, that has no bearing on whether the individual is actually in compliance with USPAP. You either are in compliance with the relevant sections of the Ethics Rule or you're not; "getting away" with misconduct doesn't mean said misconduct did not occur. Unprofessional conduct is unprofessional conduct. No matter what, you can never get away from yourself and your own knowledge of your actions.

It's people who constantly and chronically try to push the limits of what they can "get away with" who are to blame for some of our current events, including the downsides of the HVCC.

 

[PropertyEconomics]

No, as I've stated over and over, a numerical value is also expressed by talking. I'm sure sign language can also qualify. Proof is saying that value or range of value to more than one person, someone to bear witness. As I've maintained, a spoken value is the same as an appraisal, the difference is verbally it can't be proven in a court of law and yet the appraisal document can. An appraisal absolutely needs a numerical value expressed somewhere in the equation. It can't just be words. Saying "benchmark value" is not the same as actually saying a number to express that benchmark value. A number must be expressed or the appraisal qualification falls apart.
You guys have lost touch with what was actually said as these points have already been covered.
:new_all_coholic:
Ohh and btw - if I express a numerical value in conversation - the research is done and that value is there. So, having to go to court to defend a verbal appraisal has never happened. However if it did and the only proof was a phone conversation a year ago, what would you plead? Never happened, or I don't recall or would you say YES!! I did !! and pay a huge fine and lose your license. But hey, it's worth it to prove your point - right? Keep your cred even if you're not an appraiser anymore, it was worth it to be totally honest and upright and admit to it, even if they have a trumped up fabrication they're throwing at you. Yep. Cause you're smart and you know the difference between an appraisal and a value suggestion when spoken by an appraisal professional. Way to go dude !!

Sorry had to copy before you edited out the above bold.

And as for me going to court over speaking an appraisal and not having a fully documented work file .. aint gonna happen ... my practice of business is quite different from yours because I understand USPAP. I will admit to you its a little dry, but you should try reading it sometime.

 

[PropertyEconomics]

Forgive me for not wading through the train wreck, but it looks to me like one side of the debate here is attempting to cling to the notion that an appraisal must consists of a numerical value. If I've interpreted that incorrectly then my comment below - which I'm confident has probably already been made - can be disregarded.

An appraisal need not be expressed as a number, per se. It can also take the form of a range of values, or as a relationship to a previous value or numerical benchmark.

That's part of the definition and there's basically no room for debate about that. The definition was written in that manner precisely to prevent some of the verbal acrobatics that seem to be in use in this thread.

As for measuring what you're doing based on your chances of getting caught, that has no bearing on whether the individual is actually in compliance with USPAP. You either are in compliance with the relevant sections of the Ethics Rule or you're not; "getting away" with misconduct doesn't mean said misconduct did not occur. Unprofessional conduct is unprofessional conduct. No matter what, you can never get away from yourself and your own knowledge of your actions.

It's people who constantly and chronically try to push the limits of what they can "get away with" who are to blame for some of our current events, including the downsides of the HVCC.

As always George, a very good summary of what is happening in this thread, and a very sharp to the point assessment of exactly what this Apprazur is in fact doing.

Thank you.

 

[George Hatch]

One more thing, as far as I know, USPAP has been adopted as the minimum standard of conduct for licensed appraisers in all the states. I've have seen the applicable reference in each of the sets of state regs I've reviewed (~20), with no exceptions so far. If a licensee is in violation of USPAP that also puts them in violation of state appraisal regs, too. USPAP isn't optional for licensed appraisers, and even if it was, the signed certs in the Fannie forms certify to no improper assignment contingencies. Lying on a cert is a violation in every state.

 

[Hamlet]

It's people who constantly and chronically try to push the limits of what they can "get away with" who are to blame for some of our current events, including the downsides of the HVCC.

This bears repeating... Appraizur are you listening?

 

[Hamlet]

One more thing, as far as I know, USPAP has been adopted as the minimum standard of conduct for licensed appraisers in all the states. I've have seen the applicable reference in each of the sets of state regs I've reviewed (~20), with no exceptions so far. If a licensee is in violation of USPAP that also puts them in violation of state appraisal regs, too. USPAP isn't optional for licensed appraisers, and even if it was, the signed certs in the Fannie forms certify to no improper assignment contingencies. Lying on a cert is a violation in every state.

Another spot on post. Appraizur are you listening?