Newbies Please Read This

[Stone]

Those people have time to work 50-70 hours a week and still sit and write on numerous topics for their own kicks. Going to the internet for advice is like cold calling someone for legal advice. Only go to people you know." I guess he is right since I have no idea if you guys/gals are real or 'posers'. I have time to ask questions since I only work about 30 hours a week. I guess anyone can come here, sign up, and log in.

Two things struck me about this.

One: appraisers tend to a be a little on the obsessive side, and since many of us work alone or with one or two others, spending free time chatting with other appraisers is a pretty natural thing. There are days when this is the only place I interact with humans other than my wife, as I spend a few days most weeks simply typing on my computer. It isn't the same as seeing people in person, but it is a nice retreat.

Two: If you have questions about some of us being real or posers, you can go to our state web-sites and see if we are registered as appraisers. That is pretty easy. I have never done this for anyone here, as I am one of those silly people who believes that people are who they say they are. But, if you doubt that the people who are trying to give you an answer to your question are who we say we are, go check it out. So, I personally believe (and have answered in a manner consistent to that) you are Jeremy Noland, appraiser. If I felt you were anything else, I wouldn't have taken the time.

I then asked about charging $0 for appraisals that do not close and this as a business practice. He said that again as long as predetermined values do not come into play, I can charge whatever I want. As long as I can show that predetermined value did not come into the equation anyone who did this would be fine and would not get into trouble.

I am a little surprised that nobody addressed this section of your post directly, but it seems to me like you probably couched your question in a manner that would get you the answer you wanted to hear, which BTW, is a pretty natural way to ask a question. I do not mean that as a slam, but when it comes to ethics/legal questions, it is better to hear the right answer than the one that gives you what you want.

It sounds to me like he told you that you cannot do what you are asking. He said "As long as I can show that predetermined value did not come into the equation anyone who did this would be fine and would not get into trouble." You are clearly using a pre-determined value if you only charge for loans that close. I suppose you could not charge for loans that don't close because of some non-appraisal related issue, but if there is a contract and your value is below that number, than you will be on very thin ice. But, as I see every spring in these parts, some people can walk on thin ice while others find the weak portion and fall through.

I guess I don't really care if you do it. I don't have a personal stake in it, other than how it makes us look as an industry. I know you said you aren't planning to do this, so that makes me happy. However, you seem to be spending a large amount of time proving to yourself that this can be done. To me, this is clear as night and day, but that is just my opinion.

One last thing, since you are unsure about whether we are posers: I found it very convenient that you attended a luncheon where you just happened to run across a board member who not only would agree with your point of view, but would as a nice extra, slam this forum and its participants. Not saying it didn't happen, just that it is a convenient argument tactic to suddenly have this authoritative voice who agrees with everything you say (at least as you see it) and berates us at the same time. Hmmmmm. Could happen, I suppose.

Good luck with however you go about your career. And, FYI, some of us might even break into the 30k range one of these days.

Take care,

Michael

 

[DB]

:lol: I admit it .... I was the first to go there on the name thing .... I led Greg and the others astray .... I have been married 3 times so I am used to saying "I'm sorry. It's all my fault." Heck I can do it in my sleep ... and have .... :lol:

TC, your powers of observation never cease to amaze me and you are a credit to this industry, although I must confess the Silver Surfer noticed it first .... And suggested a little editing ....

Greg ... I am sorry my brother .... you depended on me to tell you right and I failed ... I will do better by you in the future .... <_<

I have to agree with Michael in every aspect of his post ....

So Jeremy, consider all advice, not just the ones you agree with .... learn a little more before you start playing devils advocate because we already have a self appointed devils advocate in residence here ..... and draw in the claws .... We all tried to help you ... you argued that we were wrong ... then it got ugly ... riddled with stereotypes and got personal (that was Greg's fault) :lol: (btw .. not everyone from TN lives in a trailer .... but we do carry guns ... to church!)

Some things will always be true: The idea that you proposed will be illegal, Pam will always edit my posts, you will be welcome here and if you get out of line Greg and I will gang up on you h34r: , the advice that you get here will be some of the best available because it doesn't come from a single source, but you will have to learn to read between the lines ..... experience is a combination of things, your own experience, the input of those who know more than you, and your own studies.

In an office environment you generally have a pool of personalities that you can pull from that help you define your style of doing business and to bounce ideas off of, and to steer you in the right direction. Most of us work at home and have very little contact with the day to day workings of the office world and depend on each other to help us develop our style of doing business, bounce ideas off of and to steer us int he right direction. My advice, even though you have said that you don't want it, is to listen to everyone, gather as much information as possible and then make your own decisions on how to do business, as long as it remains within the context of the laws that govern our business.

This is a discussion forum. We discuss .... ideas ...interpretations .... problems ...solutions ... and no one here is the ultimate authority on any subject, but combined, we represent one of the greatest knowledge bases in the world on the subject of appraisal. I do not come here to educate .... I come here to learn ... and learn something everyday .... other than that my presence here, at this moment in time, is comic relief for those who get too caught up in all this to remember why they do it .... because they like it. There are very few questions that I can answer here that do not come from what I have learned here and from my mentor .... I started in this business at 40 years old .... you have a much better chance to learn and retain what you learn that I do, based on age alone .... use it .... it will serve you well ....

The single best piece of advice I can give you is to watch Greg Boyd... closely ... :lol:

 

[Kate]

Jeremy,

My eyes popped out of my head when I saw that you came back to the forum after you gave us all the big finger. I would have been way to ashamed to show my face again after how you acted. I guess that's the beauty of the internet.

I am so sorry you were offended by name calling I can't say that you were innocent or didn't have it comming though. That is what happens when someone comes to the newbie/wannabe board looking for advice and returns the FAVOR with rashness and rudeness.

Unfortunately you have just thrown a wonderful resource down the drain. That was not smart. Many will remember how you treated them the next time you ask for advice. Some will be big enough like Pam who spent all that time spelling it out for you after you slapped her in the face.

Go ahead and do some searches just to see the amount of info that you could miss out on if your behavor doesn't change. Then search the internet for another forum for appraisers. You will soon see this is one of the best resources for appraisers.

Nuf...said

 

[Pamela Crowley (Florida)]

For an excellent example of what can happen to an appraiser playing the game Jeremy suggested:

http://appraisersforum.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=12680

Now regarding my posting all that USPAP quote, I also have USPAP 2003 in pdf on my desktop. I copied and pasted that. Thanks for thinking I typed all that though!!!

 

[Jungle Boy]

Jeremy

Even if u think it's ok to bill according to whatever reason you prefer to call it, as long as it has nothing to do with predetermined value, you better make fake appraisal request forms for all your appraisal reports, because when you do get audited, it will be very apparent to the board that predetermined value was in fact the issue. :blink:

( 3 sense worth )

 

[JEREMY SAPOSNEK]

To further complicate the situation......

When the Appraisal Police review the LENDER/CLIENT file, the original order with the un-ethical request will be included as EVDIENCE......

 

[Pamela Crowley (Florida)]

You can spend a lot of time trying to figure out ways to cover it up that most likely never will be enough

or

just do it legally the first time around.

 

[Bob Ipock]

The biggest problem facing is not the ocassional fool that comes on this forum and is willing to spout off that they have found a way to skirt a rule or law. It is the hundreds or thousands of appraiers that will never post on this forum but are doing the same things.

We appraisers have failed. We have failed to police ourselves, failed to educate ourselves, failed to educate lenders and other users of appraisal reports and failed to "promote and maintain a high level of public trust in professional appraisal practice".

The results and consequences of all of this have begun. We are seeing more and more reports of lawsuits, disciplinary actions and even prison sentances. This is just the beginning. In the next several years we will see increased enforcement, more severe disiplinary actions and more bad actors behind bars. We will also see greater regulation, more rules, laws and requirements. There will be fewer people
entering the appraisal profession and more leaving (many by revocation and/or surrender of their license). Those that remain may even be able to make a decent living.

Too many appraisers that have been improperly trained, too many appraisers ignorant of the rules, regulations, laws, standards and too few appraisers willing to be ethical.

If ignorance is bliss, the appraisal profession must be the most blissful place to be.

 

[Dee Dee]

Bob,
You pretty much summed it all up.
The only people who I can think of that might disagree with your last post would be those appraisers who are in niche markets that are not mortgage related, or those who simply haven't been in this profession long enough to see the big picture.

 

[Joe Gomberg]

Wow...long post. Pretty funny too. I do have one question though....how do you do a market approach??? lmao.... heheeh...too funny!