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No, We Are Not Afraid Of Competition Etc. Trying To Help You

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back then it didn't take 2 years or 2000 hours to properly train someone.. the smart ones new what they were doing in a couple of months...
Many of us had enough moxie to grasp the gist of appraising rather quickly and were not supervised on below deminimus work after only a few weeks. I learned more about what was expected of me from reading old appraisals I beg, borrowed and stole than from classes or supervision. All my mentors were pre-licensing experts, with backgrounds in VA, FHA, Farm Credit, assessor appraiser, and one was a farm owner and appraiser. I once was offered an assignment of a large farm and called my mentor. He said "go ahead and look at it. I don't need to because I owned that farm and sold it to him about 10 years ago...." Pretty good considering it was 30 miles from his office. Today few newbies can generate work on their own, something we did routinely back then. In fact, was almost all my work in those training years.
The use of evaluations isn’t the end of the world as long as appraisers
However evaluators for banks charge more than the PTB seem to think appraisers should charge for a similar product.

FWIW, this is a career for middle aged people with life experience. I don't think the average age of appraisers will ever fall below 50.
 
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In 2002, at took mine at CPCC from Hicks. The room had 100 people!!!

It took me 3 years for someone to take me on. First 50 I worked for free. Next 2 years I made $14,000.

Even in 2006-2007 he had a hard time finding new clients, so he laid me off. USPAP, Varnadore Appraisals ring a bell? In other words, there has to be enough business for appraisers to train other appraisers!! We do not need 100 appraisers to come on...maybe 5-10 per year for the state, if that?

2016-2017 was just a glitch in the appraisal world, that led to a under supply of appraisers is SOME areas.
 
https://www.wsj.com/articles/fewer-americans-uproot-themselves-for-new-jobs-1534690800

46 COMMENTS
By
Rachel Feintzeig and
Lauren Weber
Aug. 19, 2018 11:00 a.m. ET

Fewer Americans are moving around the country to pursue new work opportunities, as changing family ties and more openings near home make people less willing to uproot their lives for a job.

About 3.5 million Americans relocated for a new job last year, according to census data, a 10% drop from 3.8 million in 2015. The numbers have fluctuated between 2.8 million and 4.5 million since the government started tracking job-related relocations in 1999—but have been trending lower overall, even as the U.S. population grew by nearly 20% over that stretch.

The share of job seekers relocating has fallen dramatically since the late 1980s, when more than a third moved to take new opportunities elsewhere, according to surveys from outplacement firm Challenger, Gray & Christmas Inc. In the 1990s, job-related moves ebbed and flowed at between 20% and 35% of the labor force, then fell below 20% after 2000. Roughly 10% of job seekers relocated in the first half of this year, Challenger said.

Experts point to a number of factors that historically have kept people in one place, including a depressed value for their home or limited job openings. In the current strong economy, real-estate values have rebounded, but that has made housing costs prohibitively high in some places where jobs are abundant, such as major East and West Coast cities.

Not on the MoveU.S. worker mobility is falling amid tight labor market, changing family ties.Americans moving for a new job or job transferSource: Census Bureau
.million19992000’01’02’03’04’05’06’07’08’09’10’11’12’13’14’15’16’170.00.51.01.52.02.53.03.54.04.55.0
And while more positions are available, often at better pay, many Americans aren’t interested in relocating for family reasons or because they can get a better job nearby without the disruption and expense of moving.


Heather Murray recently got a call from a former colleague who tried to tempt her to his tech company. The senior vice president role he had in mind came with more pay and more responsibility—the next logical next step in her career. But it also came with a deal breaker: She would have to move from Florida to a city in the Mid-Atlantic region.

Ms. Murray opted to keep her vice president position at technology distributor Tech DataCorp. in Clearwater, Fla. Though she earns more than $300,000 a year, she said her refusal to entertain offers in other cities has held back her career.

“Making another $100,000, $200,000, whatever it is, that’s not what motivates me,” said Ms. Murray, who shares custody of her two children with her nearby ex-husband. “Kids need their parents.”

People with children are less likely to move after a divorce than they were in prior decades, as more parents opt for shared-custody arrangements that include their children living with them for periods of time, according to Thomas Cooke, a sociologist at the University of Connecticut who studies Americans’ mobility patterns. “Any way you measure it, families are more complex than they used to be,” he said.

Mr. Cooke said adults were increasingly making decisions that revolve around not disrupting their children’s routines. Both men and women are spending more time on child care, with a majority of fathers saying that parenting is extremely important to their identity, according to the Pew Research Center.

Pew data also show women are contributing more to their family’s incomes, making it difficult to replicate a family’s standard of living if only one spouse has a new job waiting in a different city. And as the country grows older, the number of adults caring for aging parents has grown.

Such trends are chipping away at the once-common pattern of families following careers—typically the husband’s—and changing how workers think about distant job opportunities.

Aimee Cohen, a career coach in Denver, said relocation packages have gotten skimpier and even executives wonder how long a new gig will last.

“You’re not made any promises,” Ms. Cohen said, adding that many employees’ mentality is, “Am I going to uproot my family? For what? And for how long?”

Doug Ringer and his wife have made seven moves during their 22 years of marriage, all of them driven by his job changes. The most recent was in 2014, when the Ringers moved with their two children from Louisville, Ky. to Fort Collins, Colo., so he could take a product-management job with Schneider Electric SE .


Mr. Ringer explained the new opportunity to his daughter and son, then 17 and 15. “We asked for their opinions.”

The children wanted to see Fort Collins, so Mr. Ringer arranged for Schneider to fly the family to Colorado for a few days. Though his children agreed to the move, he now feels it was too tough on his daughter, who had to start a new high school in the middle of her junior year.

When Mr. Ringer lost his job in a round of layoffs in January, looking for a new job far afield was off the table, he said. His son was still in high school, and his daughter is enrolled in college nearby. His wife is happy at her job at Colorado State University, where she is a veterinary technician.

For now, Mr. Ringer is consulting with small and midsize businesses while continuing to look for work locally.

John Touey, a principal with executive search firm Salveson Stetson Group Inc., said he used to assume moving wasn’t a problem unless a job candidate specifically mentioned that it was.

“Now we go into the situation thinking it probably is an issue, so we need to bring it up,” he said, likening his job these days to that of a relocation consultant. He says he has to talk with job seekers about their spouse’s careers and children’s school needs—“the whole life situation of the candidate.”

Dan Gallagher, 46, has been job hunting since the end of 2017, after he left his senior vice president role at Comcast Corp. in the Philadelphia area after 17 years with the company. His four young sons’ lives are a top consideration as he sizes up potential positions.

In previous generations, “you had this binding loyalty to the organization and if a promotion meant you had to move, you’d do that,” Mr. Gallagher said. “Today, there’s so many moving pieces.”
 
“The use of evaluations isn’t the end of the world as long as appraisers are doing the evaluations,” Murrett said. “This, of course, falls in line with the regulatory rules and other regulations. We’d like to see appraisers do evaluations and not be in fear of violating USPAP requirements.”

I assume that means the push to drop USPAP requirements from states allowing appraisers to do evaluation , and not have to be USPAP compliant when doing those evaluations?

But does USPAP ever really go away as a standard for appraisals?

What is the standard if they get regulators to drop USPAP for this area of practice,? If the is not obligated to follow USPAP, why not return to letting a RE agent or staff person do the BPO or evaluation? Why use an appraiser then ? used at that point? Some extra expertise we supposedly provide for the dinky fee? Will the appraiser's e and o cover them if they do a non USPAP compliant desktop appraisal?

It's the obligation of a licensed / cert. appraiser to make a written "form" report of any type USPAP compliant.
 
The very first night of my classes in 1997 at Mingle School of RE in Charlotte,NC. The instructor, John Bosworth said that only one of five of you would be in the business in five years. There was what seemed like a minute of silence, then he smiled and went one. He was an excellent teacher

21 years later and I wonder what those others in my class are doing
 
The very first night of my classes in 1997 at Mingle School of RE in Charlotte,NC. The instructor, John Bosworth said that only one of five of you would be in the business in five years. There was what seemed like a minute of silence, then he smiled and went one. He was an excellent teacher

21 years later and I wonder what those others in my class are doing

John is top notch Instructor and appraiser. In Charlotte area I would say he is in the top 1-2% of all the appraisers. John was my instructor at Queens college when he was an SRA. He had as I recall just moved here from Louisiana. Definitely a mover and shaker in our business.
 
It would occur to me that most if not all of these folks that are looking for a supervisor should have done so before and during classes.

i don't think it is necessarily a bad thing to have your classes done first, but it does increase the chances that money will not be recouped but only because it has already been spent. take me for example. i am a second gen appraiser but while i was training i was forced to train under 3 different "mentors" so that i was a more well rounded appraiser in the end and not a clone of my father. i had to take all the courses before i was allowed to do anything, because without them i would have absolutely no clue about anything appraisal related. at least by taking the classes a person would have some sort of base on day 1 of being with the mentor.
 
i don't think it is necessarily a bad thing to have your classes done first, but it does increase the chances that money will not be recouped but only because it has already been spent
I don't think it's a bad thing either, but again, I had a little more info than the avg person going into it.

Unlike TRES's post and many other appraiser's out there (family was in appraising), my "experience" started working at an AMC before becoming an appraiser. Long story short, I was looking at appraisals as a "reviewer" (a.k.a. Quality Control) staff person (again, NOT an appraiser) After looking at many, many reports I thought to myself "I could do this" and then started taking classes

While living in PA I took over 200 hrs of classes but was never able to find a supervisor/mentor. It took moving to FL (and knowing a guy, who knew a guy) before I was able to find a supervisor/mentor. That search took over a year
 
There have been several comments lately from people either wanting to take classes, taking classes now or finished with their classes. The common thread is usually they can't find a supervisor. Nobody is worried about you being a competitor....especially is you are hundreds or even thousands of miles apart. Even if you were in the same town it would be years before you could hurt e appraiser. We are not concerned about you being competition. This crap about not wanting to "give back to the profession". is offensive and wrong. Many of the folks on the forum give back freely.

There are far more reasons established appraisers will not take on a trainee than their are valid reasons to hire one. Believe me, if you are being trained right you will be costing your supervisor money for at least a year (probably more). The trainee slows everything down everything for a long time. It takes time to learn software, how to access public records, MLS etc. You will be constantly asking questions that eats up the supervisor's time. It will be a good long time until you could inspect a property without the supervisor. He or she is going to sign their name saying they inspected...and they damn well better. They will have to go WITH them in order to get your training hours.

Understand the split. Likely the MOST you would ever get would be 70/30.....and that would be way down the road. Let's say you get 50/50 On a $400 fee that would be $200. You would be lucky to get 4-5 in a weekly...in these times less. Some appraisers don't pay a split (I don't) but an hourly wage. I am not going to have a split until someone can do the entire appraisal without help. Where I am located a trainee must pay full dues for MLS access which is about $900.00 per year. At some point you will be responsible for paying for your own software. Don't forget the car expenses and I am talking tires, brakes, oil changes...because likely you will be racking up some miles.


If we could shake you...it would have been BEFORE you paid out for your classes and tell you to research the business in detail so you would know what you are getting in to. You can easily do some research and see that the number of appraisers is falling. The biggest pat of those people don't renew due to a lack of work. I know appraisers in there 70's and 80's who still have a license they may use on a limited basis.

I spoke with 4 appraiser buddies today, all in business 20+ years. All four said they were dead...no orders. It happens.....too frequently. None of the borrowers that bought at interest rates under 4%.....are not going to be refinancing at rates over 4%. Many appraisers depend of refinances for a bunch of their business.....I am in that column Fewer appraisals are being ordered, fees are stagnant at best. If you have a college degree of some technical skill.....there are plenty of other/better ways to make a living.

Don't come on here (or when speaking to an appraiser, sending out emails or making phone calls) and try to convince somebody that you know everything about the appraisal business....there is so much you need to know that can only be learned from a practicing appraiser. The fact that you did not find a supervisor or research the appraisal business before is evidence of what you did not know. New business is hard to get...it can be done .....but it is difficult. If you are going to get a new client it mean that someone is losing that client. There are many of us that have FIRED clients due to them being hard to deal with, low fees, dishonesty on their part etc.

I could go on....and hope some other appraisers on here might add some comments. It is not that we don't want to help you.....but we need to be honest with you. I hope you will be one of the 25% of trainees that are ever able to find a supervisor.


If this sounds harsh or discouraging that is only because it is the truth. Again, do not spend money on appraisal classes until you research the business and talk to 10 appraisers in your area to see if they need a trainee, already have a trainee of don't have enough work or the desire to take on a trainee.

Good luck. Remember we actually make our on luck.

Very smart experienced appraisers will gladly take on smart trainees, as long as they haven't already been burned by the experience. I define a "smart experienced" appraiser as someone with 15+ years of experience, knows USPAP and bank guidelines almost by heart, is experienced and good at handling almost all problems that they are faced with- and probably has a good college education. "Smart" trainees are those with at least two, more likely four plus years of college with a good number of math and science courses, smart enough to get 700 on the SAT math test, know Excel and Word, are quick learners and good at analysis. The problem is that a lot of "supervisors" like this, work in large companies and will be inclined to put such trainees into back-end analysis. [Now, there are other reasons for this I can't get into, because the realities of commercial appraisal demand compliance with certain things that take, shall we say, "experience" to accept, ... not to offend anyone.] Such trainees however want their license and that back-end analysis doesn't count for much in that regard. So, you get a disconnect. Sometimes such large companies ( and a couple come to mind) lure such trainees into the fold as appraisers and then try to coerce them, via various methods, into that back-end analytical work that does not count towards an appraisal license. That tends not to pan out as well. A lot of the "smart" trainees eventually leave the fold, because it is taking too long to make progress towards a license, because they learn there is a lot of BS for trainees, or "puffing" - our old fashioned real estate term, and because of the slow but sure realization that working upwards through a very entrenched hierarchy of more senior appraisers is quite possibly going to take a LOT of time (I mean like 15 or so years) and they they actually have better prospects elsewhere.

Yet, there are still some "smart" trainees out there who will fall for the BS from the big companies, that they are assured of a solid future if they run the gauntlet. Well, I should add, smart trainees who are willing to play along, but also play hard ball too see how far they can get on their own terms. - But those cases create such a bad taste for, shall we say, "hypothetical" supervisors, that said supervisors get "burned" - as the saying goes, and are reluctant to waste their time again. End result, good supervisors for even good smart trainees are in limited supply.

There is no good solution. The whole appraisal system is poorly engineered. And, IT IS SO OBVIOUS!! The contradictions abound. For example, the lending industry says that appraisers have to follow all these detailed guidelines each tailored to a specific bank, do this don't do that. YET, somehow, they think they are going to be happy with hybrids? Yea, it is all BS, well largely BS. The appraisal profession should never have been made so dependent on the whims of the lending industry. That strategy was the cornerstone of failure from the beginning.
 
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Very smart experienced appraisers will gladly take on smart trainees, as long as they haven't already been burned by the experience. I define a "smart experienced" appraiser as someone with 15+ years of experience, knows USPAP and bank guidelines almost by heart, is experienced and good at handling almost all problems that they are faced with- and probably has a good college education. "Smart" trainees are those with at least two, more likely four plus years of college with a good number of math and science courses, smart enough to get 700 on the SAT math test, know Excel and Word, are quick learners and good at analysis. The problem is that a lot of "supervisors" like this, work in large companies and will be inclined to put such trainees into back-end analysis. [Now, there are other reasons for this I can't get into, because the realities of commercial appraisal demand compliance with certain things that take, shall we say, "experience" to accept, ... not to offend anyone.] Such trainees however want their license and that back-end analysis doesn't count for much in that regard. So, you get a disconnect. Sometimes such large companies ( and a couple come to mind) lure such trainees into the fold as appraisers and then try to coerce them, via various methods, into that back-end analytical work that does not count towards an appraisal license. That tends not to pan out as well. A lot of the "smart" trainees eventually leave the fold, because it is taking too long to make progress towards a license, because they learn there is a lot of BS for trainees, or "puffing" - our old fashioned real estate term, and because of the slow but sure realization that working upwards through a very entrenched hierarchy of more senior appraisers is quite possibly going to take a LOT of time (I mean like 15 or so years) and they they actually have better prospects elsewhere.

Yet, there are still some "smart" trainees out there who will fall for the BS from the big companies, that they are assured of a solid future if they run the gauntlet. Well, I should add, smart trainees who are willing to play along, but also play hard ball too see how far they can get on their own terms. - But those cases create such a bad taste for, shall we say, "hypothetical" supervisors, that said supervisors get "burned" - as the saying goes, and are reluctant to waste their time again. End result, good supervisors for even good smart trainees are in limited supply.

There is no good solution. The whole appraisal system is poorly engineered. And, IT IS SO OBVIOUS!! The contradictions abound. For example, the lending industry says that appraisers have to follow all these detailed guidelines each tailored to a specific bank, do this don't do that. YET, somehow, they think they are going to be happy with hybrids? Yea, it is all BS, well largely BS. The appraisal profession should never have been made so dependent on the whims of the lending industry. That strategy was the cornerstone of failure from the beginning.

The FIRST thing is the supervisor must want or need a trainee and have enough business to take on the expense of a trainee. That knocks out the majority of would be supervisors. It does not matter how great the trainee is if the if these conditions don't apply.
 
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