No, We Are Not Afraid Of Competition Etc. Trying To Help You

[Bob Ipock]

i don't think it is necessarily a bad thing to have your classes done first, but it does increase the chances that money will not be recouped but only because it has already been spent. take me for example. i am a second gen appraiser but while i was training i was forced to train under 3 different "mentors" so that i was a more well rounded appraiser in the end and not a clone of my father. i had to take all the courses before i was allowed to do anything, because without them i would have absolutely no clue about anything appraisal related. at least by taking the classes a person would have some sort of base on day 1 of being with the mentor.

My point is check out the landscape before you spend money on classes. Are appraisers in the area looking for trainees? What can they pay? Is part time possible? What happens if business gets slow? I advise that people find out to some of these questions on the front end of the classes rather than the back end.

 

[RCA]

The FIRST thing is the supervisor must want or need a trainee and have enough business to take on the expense of a trainee. That knocks out the majority of would be supervisors. It does not matter how great the trainee is if the if these conditions don't apply.

Yea, and when there is work, there is no time to deal with a run-of-the-mill trainee. And it is probably not going to happen for anyone doesn't have family ties to the business - or is a quick learner and has something to offer off the bat - or for whom appraisal management feels is a promising long-term addition to the infrastructure (back-end work). In most cases I've seen things kind of fall into those slots, of course based on my rather limited view. Oh, and I am mostly referring to large commercial appraisal companies. Smaller and residential to a lesser extent - there is more variation. You will find your best supervisors in smaller companies - but even they are not going to want to spend a lot of time with you.

 

[Carnivore]

My point is check out the landscape before you spend money on classes. Are appraisers in the area looking for trainees? What can they pay? Is part time possible? What happens if business gets slow? I advise that people find out to some of these questions on the front end of the classes rather than the back end.

Good Advice!

This is a multi-level/multi-faceted problem.

The number one issue is that most lenders WILL NOT let an appraiser use a trainee for a report UNLESS the Supervisor accompanies the Trainee.

In other words you can't sign DID NOT INSPECT. Why would any CR accompany a trainee on every inspection for a Partial Fee. Especially when AMC's push for the lowest fee possible.

Another issue is a trainee has to complete all classes and Test out before they can legally claim work experience. Another nonsensical BS requirement. Nothing says or prevents a Trainee from appraising residential homes on his own while pursuing his/her license. Here is where the State appraisal licensing boards are wrong. NC home inspector Licensing board allows any trainee home inspector to HOME INSPECT provided that they DONOT charge a FEE. Its that simple. I believe they get credit for experience(although i am not sure of that while I type this comment). Appraiser Trainees should be able to do the same thing and RECEIVE CREDIT for work experience.

Finally! Although I may think of something else after I hit Post Reply.

Not every CR/CG is an educator. That is a special Skill set! During my career in Army Aviation I was a Instructor Pilot. That is not easy to acquire. I conducted in Unit Flight Check Rides and Annual Academic Review! I have not Taught Ground or conducted Flight training at the US Army flight School at Ft Rucker. Never had a desire to do that. Training an idiot that just came off the street of Anytown USA into the military can be more hazardous than Combat Missions.

I have some strong feelings about the AQB. Maybe I will share them later in this thread. So for now I will only say this, they are smart but not always in the way you would expect and occasionally they have demonstrated that Professionalism took a back seat due to the pressure from the Fast & Cheap Crowd of Users.

I could go on an on but I think I made my point(s).

 

[jay trotta]

Although I liked a bunch of what you said in your OP, USPAP, this part jumped out at me

I've had 4 people call me over the past 5 years (1 just within the past few weeks - he I have not taken out with me but did offer) asking about getting into this profession. All were very intelligent individuals with various degrees of professional backgrounds. The closest one I found with any real estate background was a female who had been working for a property managing company. The next "closest" was a guy who's father "owned some property"

All 4 I offered to take out with me for a "day in the life" (again, the 4th has not called back to take me up on the offer) I did not charge them anything for the time. I set it up so it was for vacant properties (lock box) that I didn't have to worry about time restraints, or borrowers/agents wondering what was going on, etc.

Yes, it was time consuming, but all seemed to appreciate it. All of them pretty much had the same reaction though regarding what went into an appraisal. They all thought it was just the "few minutes" at a property and BOOM you have a value and made $$$. Once I showed them the research side back at the office (very quick overview at that) and explained the "typing a report" ...

Just a shortie here, my bold (I know you didn't notice) this is where the Public is mislead, Zillow and all the others dominate the Net and most people believe it's simplicity in producing a number, whether that number is accurate or not. Once the real process is reviewed there are few that want to deal with how cumbersome it is to produce the work, and the complexities involved.
It is exactly why the pay scale should be commensurate with the time involved, everybody forgets OR has no idea what it takes OR took to get to the real production level; even FNMA/FREDDIE.
The investment of 5-10 years learning the business is only the beginning, it also involves continually educating yourself while in the field and classroom (laws & guideline changes), therefore, the entire process is complex.
Do you yawn when the AMC requests a reason (spell out the complexity) why you want to increase a Fee ? Any & every appraisal is complex, a newbie will take 3-5 days to produce a report minimum; it defines the complexities involved and the supervisor will be there thru the entire process, talking & teaching (is that suppose to be Free ??).

 

[Mr Rex]

Good Advice!

This is a multi-level/multi-faceted problem.

The number one issue is that most lenders WILL NOT let an appraiser use a trainee for a report UNLESS the Supervisor accompanies the Trainee.

In other words you can't sign DID NOT INSPECT. Why would any CR accompany a trainee on every inspection for a Partial Fee. Especially when AMC's push for the lowest fee possible.

Another issue is a trainee has to complete all classes and Test out before they can legally claim work experience. Another nonsensical BS requirement. Nothing says or prevents a Trainee from appraising residential homes on his own while pursuing his/her license. Here is where the State appraisal licensing boards are wrong. NC home inspector Licensing board allows any trainee home inspector to HOME INSPECT provided that they DONOT charge a FEE. Its that simple. I believe they get credit for experience(although i am not sure of that while I type this comment). Appraiser Trainees should be able to do the same thing and RECEIVE CREDIT for work experience.

Finally! Although I may think of something else after I hit Post Reply.

Not every CR/CG is an educator. That is a special Skill set! During my career in Army Aviation I was a Instructor Pilot. That is not easy to acquire. I conducted in Unit Flight Check Rides and Annual Academic Review! I have not Taught Ground or conducted Flight training at the US Army flight School at Ft Rucker. Never had a desire to do that. Training an idiot that just came off the street of Anytown USA into the military can be more hazardous than Combat Missions.

I have some strong feelings about the AQB. Maybe I will share them later in this thread. So for now I will only say this, they are smart but not always in the way you would expect and occasionally they have demonstrated that Professionalism took a back seat due to the pressure from the Fast & Cheap Crowd of Users.

I could go on an on but I think I made my point(s).

Nope. No credit for such experience. Home Inspection requires 120 Hours classroom and 80 hours of Hands On Field Training. The hands on training used to be similar to Appraisal Trainee, the Inspector Trainee had to go with a licensed Home Inspector for their first 100 inspections, but that has been changed to the 80 hours of Field Training. There are only a few approved instructors/schools for the Field Training.

 

[Carnivore]

Nope. No credit for such experience. Home Inspection requires 120 Hours classroom and 80 hours of Hands On Field Training. The hands on training used to be similar to Appraisal Trainee, the Inspector Trainee had to go with a licensed Home Inspector for their first 100 inspections, but that has been changed to the 80 hours of Field Training. There are only a few approved instructors/schools for the Field Training.

Thank You! Take a look at what they used to do and how they improved it. above. I consider that significant improvement and it validates my points about our process flaws. My guess is that the Home Inspector Licensing board had the same issues we have now and very intelligently and carefully revised. Excellent!

 

[J Grant]

Just a shortie here, my bold (I know you didn't notice) this is where the Public is mislead, Zillow and all the others dominate the Net and most people believe it's simplicity in producing a number, whether that number is accurate or not. Once the real process is reviewed there are few that want to deal with how cumbersome it is to produce the work, and the complexities involved.
It is exactly why the pay scale should be commensurate with the time involved, everybody forgets OR has no idea what it takes OR took to get to the real production level; even FNMA/FREDDIE.
The investment of 5-10 years learning the business is only the beginning, it also involves continually educating yourself while in the field and classroom (laws & guideline changes), therefore, the entire process is complex.
Do you yawn when the AMC requests a reason (spell out the complexity) why you want to increase a Fee ? Any & every appraisal is complex, a newbie will take 3-5 days to produce a report minimum; it defines the complexities involved and the supervisor will be there thru the entire process, talking & teaching (is that suppose to be Free ??).

We have appraisers here screaming "entitlement " when an appraiser dares ask for an appropriate fee . It is the only field where professionals turn on each other and champion a low fee as the "market " speaking, when it is really AMC's speaking given their control of market share and the way they get compensated ( subsidized from their vendors and thus able to offer free of cost service to their lender customers ) The other problem is the low pay AMC;s are fronted by designated chief appraisers.Nothing wrong with working for an AMC , but their chief appraisers know the low fee to appraisers is part of the company model -

Compound it with AMC's and lenders who benefit from free of cost AMC service successfully lobbied the govt for regulatory policy and changes that favor them, putting organized pressure to depress fees. I can not think of any other profession where individual professionals face organized pressure of this kind around dinky fee amounts. Appraisers who entered the profession prior to HVCC did not face it, and some were able to retain clients/a develop a skill set or niche ( or just be lucky in location ) for better fees.
The appraisers who entered the res field post HVCC faced the downward fee pressure from day one - some simply accept it as normal ( which it is by now for much of AMC model work, to the field's detriment)

 

[TRESinc]

Another issue is a trainee has to complete all classes and Test out before they can legally claim work experience. Another nonsensical BS requirement.

remember each state is different. in ohio you have to take 5 classes, do an FBI fingerprint background check and pay the state $18 to become a licensed trainee.

Do you yawn when the AMC requests a reason (spell out the complexity) why you want to increase a Fee ?

no, and why would one? if you are asking for an increase there has to be a legitimate reason, or at least A reason, for the request. it's only natural to expect the other side, be they lender or AMC or private client, would want to know why.

if you agreed to pay $25 to get your oil changed and the guy came back to you and said the bill was going to be $100 would you want a reason why? how about it he just said the job was more complex than he thought so he is charging you more? would that suffice?

We have appraisers here screaming "entitlement " when an appraiser dares ask for an appropriate fee .

wow, you should work in politics with the ability you have to spin what others have said.

 

[Carnivore]

Lets go a step further. Here is one that some of you will be absolutely be against and others will be on board with and the third and largest group will be on the fence about.

I firmly believe that all USPAP update course CE should be tested at the end of the course day!! Please respond with a logical answer of why not.

 

[ucbruin]

Lets go a step further. Here is one that some of you will be absolutely be against and others will be on board with and the third and largest group will be on the fence about.

I firmly believe that all USPAP update course CE should be tested at the end of the course day!! Please respond with a logical answer of why not.

That'll cause an appraiser shortage!!!