Old boss changed report and signed my name.

[Caligirl]

Per Mike's post:

http://appraisersforum.com/showthread.php?t=121752&highlight=forsythe+signature

 

[DWiley]

California will slap you with $1000 fine for each instance your sig was used without your knowledge/permission, and full USPAP class. AND, they consider it forgery on the part of the person who used it. I know of one appraiser whose license was revoked because of using someone's sig w/o permission.

Classic example of a position that sounds good - until you actually think about it.

Look at Alamode's software for example. It allows the user to create the signature file and assign the password. So, if I have a report with your signature, I don't need your password. I can just scan the report I have a create a copy of your sig with a password of my choice. Oops - you just lost control of your signature!! Let the fine meter start clicking.

As has been discussed MANY times - the solution is to use a real digital signature, not a graphic image with an associated password.

 

[Webbed Feet]

Password?

Thank you Webbed. That is exactly the kind of explanation I have been searching for....I understand Bob's out of the office this week, have you seen your car today?

Thank you Mike: "The bottom line boys and girls is that the argument has been made that an appraiser can provide another entity with their password and digital signature file and still maintain sole personal control of affixing their signature" That is where I was trying to go earlier in thios thread.

Mr. Woolley,

I have to Devil's advocate the other side now a bit. I think the handing out of the passworded access permanently is a bridge too far. If an appraiser instructs, in a specific one time case, for a trusted person to affix their signature to a report, has "control" been given up? ... Well, how about if we add in that immediately afterwards the appraiser changes the password needed to access the signature again in the future in order to try and assure no unauthorized use of the signature? ... I may have to say control was maintained.

What if the appraiser later finds out the "trusted" person took that one time opportunity to copy the electronic signature and use it for fraud on fifty reports the appraiser had no idea of and never gave permission for their signature to be used?

What I am driving at is real world stuff. What may not be a USPAP violation regarding "control" can still end up a very horrible situation for the appraiser wherein separating when, or if, any USPAP violation occured versus plain ol fraud and identity theft can become difficult for all involved to separate out. So when are possible repercussions worth it for the involved appraisers? Not very often would be my view.

The industry has a real problem on this one. People would be well served to demand written agreements out of appraisal employers regarding signatures. Even when never intentionally providing a signature to anyone at all. Just to document permission was never granted to anyone in the event a signature should be duplicated somehow.

I do have one really good idea for those working in office enviroments wanting to protect themselves. Have any of you tested out placing your electronic signatures on a USB flash drive only and see if the software will only have access to use it if you have the flash drive plugged in? So if you go home with your USB flash drive in your pocket the appraisal office no longer so much as even has it on any hard drive? .. Just a thought. .. This idea can probably be defeated too, but it shows intent at least.



Webbed.

 

[Webbed Feet]

As has been discussed MANY times - the solution is to use a real digital signature, not a graphic image with an associated password.

Mr. Wiley,

Honestly, it should go way, way, beyond that even. More like a 256k encripted bar code that contains the subject address, effective date, borrower name, final conclusion of value, any and all "subject to" conditions, and finally the appraiser's signature all rolled into one. Each and every instance of this ONLY matches all the crucial identifying and relevant information in that specific appraisal report as each bar code now becomes unique to only that appraisal. For residential mortgage purposes, the entire "confidentiality" thing should be put in the dumpster. It does not serve the public trust or intended users.

Nothing is perfect, but our industries lack of response to securing these reports in a better manner is just plain lame.

Webbed.

 

[DWiley]

Nothing is perfect, but our industries lack of response to securing these reports in a better manner is just plain lame.

Webbed.

I totally agree. I have been VERY surprised by the lack of attention to this matter. I have discussed it with software vendors for years, but no one was interested.

I do not agree with you regarding confidentiality, but I do understand the point of view.

Regards,

DW

 

[larryhaskell]

so much for controlling your signature

http://www.appraisalpress.com/news/...l=lkhask@nvbell.net&ClickThruCustomerNumber=0

 

[TEL2002]

All of the solutions to tighten control are admirable. However, the lenders can not achieve their goals of faster-cheaper, faster-cheaper, if things are too tightly controlled. Since appraisers do not write the rules or laws that they must live by, it is doubtful if anything will be done.

 

[Mr Rex]

Digital signatures are suspect at best. I hear the handshake is now on youtube and the adjustment list is readily available at the BO.

 

[Dutchman]

The signature thing is an abomination the way it is presently used on appraisal reports. Having to give up control just to be able to use an appraisal port is absolutely ridiculous. There are many encryption and security schemes available to permanently lock a report and some of these are ridiculously simple. One comes to mind. If any attempt is made to remove a signature or unlock a signed report, one line or two lines of code imbedded in the report could be used to permanently trash the report, turn it into gibberish and make it completely unusable.
As far as turning in the appraiser to the state, I would like to make a suggestion. Since the OP said that the supervising appraiser did not inspect VA and FHA while signing that he did, I suggest contacting them and the FBI mortgage fraud taskforce. This will prevent any GOB network if it exists in the state board's office from affecting the complaint. THe OP stated that the board did not seem overly enthusiastic about the complaint. Turn them in but be smart about where.

 

[aussie ken]

Okay, this happend this past December and I have yet to really do anything about it, wanted to get some thoughts from y'all.

In mid Dec 07 I did an appraisal of a home and came in under what they thought, well wanted it to be worth, I sent it out, and went home. After I left they called the office and complained cause I busted it and blah blah typical crap. Anyway, I found out about this from 2 other co-workers that were still there, that I believe 100%, said my boss went on the rampage that I busted it and another appraiser in the office was mad too, (he's gone off the wall MANY times so I don't doubt what they said he did) Anyway, the report I did for this client always requested this one appraiser in the office, but he was too busy so i got it. Anyway, after my boss and the appraiser that normally does work for this client looked at it, they changed comps, raised the value by 100K, and signed MY name to it and sent it back out. Didn't even tell me about it. The other guys in the office did, anyway even though the new "value" didn't make want the broker wanted it's still that they did that. I ended up getting in a huge fight with my boss over it and quit over it and my boss denies knowing about it and said the other appraiser, which is his best friend and biz partner, did it on his own. The other appraiser said to just send it back out with his name on it. So, my question is, I thought about turning them into the state and never did. I have my orginal report and file and the new report they sent out. So, I'm wondering if I should still turn them in or forget about it, it has been 5 months but I'm just worried it may still come back with all this stuff going on in the industry. Thoughts and/or advice?

In addition my old boss sends out trainees on FHA and VA appraisals, they pretend to be him and he never drives by or inspects the homes himself, this is just other stuff he does wrong.

FRAUD.......FRAUD.......FRAUD........FRAUD.......FRAUD & FRAUD!!!!!!! Have some backbone!!! Take a gentle long and DEEP breath and report them to what ever regulatory authority you have locally at hand even the FBI. Also have Certified copies made of your evidence and statutory declaration in Certified Mail off to Pam in Florida.