Phil Crawford Podcast

[George Hatch]

Another lets dump the burden on the appraiser to find out, ( which in many cases is not possible or very time-consuming) rather than demand Fannie and Freddie make the info readily available and especially so to the MLS.

Does the eCRV have the info readily online? Where do you access the document filed by the title company?

Checking each sale on it would be far more time-consuming than if it showed up on MS they way Cash, VA, FHA conventional do,

A Waiver is part of conventional financing, so it would need its own disclosure.

It's premature to assume that every appraiser needs to verify the valuation element of every comparable they use in every assignment they perform. To even get to such a mandatory presumption for all appraisal assignments we would first need to get an idea of whether or not the allegation that (prevailing price trends are driven by non-appraised sales transactions) is even true, let alone common.

Even if a particular waiver-backed transaction goes off at a higher price - which can also occur with the all-cash or appraiser-backed transaction - that doesn't automatically lead to them being in sufficient quantity or of sufficient effect on the local market as to drive the pricing. Only the brokers act blind to all other sales besides the one they like. Appraisers are supposed to seek the prevailing trend among the many, not cherry pick for the one.

Does the pricing for all-cash and low LTV transactions significantly vary from the pricing for the high-LTV transactions? That's a question any appraiser can answer by simply looking at the reported loan amounts - no heroic measures or undue effort by the appraisers is even necessary. I've used those transactions in my SC since I first started appraising and - so far - I have never noticed the difference in the transaction amounts. Perhaps your lived experience (as the intersectional dogma asserts) is different.

That question isn't exactly the same as to whether or not the AVM-valued transactions at the high LTVs - which so far haven't even occurred - is going to drive the pricing ever-upward. And never-downward. Which the assumption that the GSE AVM will always or almost always come in higher than the appraisals instead of lower than the appraisers is another unsupported allegation. Maybe that assumption is true, maybe it isn't. We don't know. But Fannie/Freddie know. Or at least they can know if they are running their AVM in every deal including the ones with an appraisal.

But separating the high-LTV transactions from all the rest where the buyer is putting in more of their own money - at least it's a start. And you don't need to even wait 5 minutes to start looking at that. If you believe this off-label usage of appraisals is an effective way to prevent price creep in the general RE market then you can start your analysis this morning without waiting for other parties to simply give you the proof you seek.

If you're that sure about your assumption then there's no reason to delay. Get to it.

 

[Zoe]

You need to chill. I am talking about avenues for an appraiser to locate potential waiver sales for study, rather than just assuming data cancer exists without proof. I’m not saying it should be our responsibility to do so for every sale we analyze in an appraisal, that’s your argument. I am saying we could benefit from putting for some analysis together which draws a conclusion in “data cancer.” That’s step 1.

The GSEs are not going to give you this information. Most MLS systems won’t make it a required field either, because it could expose their members to liability. We are already hearing stories of agents being liable for advising against getting appraisals in purchase transactions, so I doubt MLS wants to give attorneys this info.

Yeah, when a consumer gets upset, their lawyer will go after anybody in the chain of the transaction.

 

[Zoe]

Crawford has that point right. He knows how lawyers work. GSE, NAR, AMC, APPRAISERS, etc etc also know.

It is not the mighty OZ behind a curtain.

My references are to waivers.

Anybody in the chain.

It will be the consumer that breaks the chain in some cases.

You can write it on the wall.

Real property is so unique. No other product like it. Consumer knows that.

 

[Zoe]

I will keep it simple. 2025 testifies to whom?

 

[J Grant]

It's premature to assume that every appraiser needs to verify the valuation element of every comparable they use in every assignment they perform. To even get to such a mandatory presumption for all appraisal assignments we would first need to get an idea of whether or not the allegation that (prevailing price trends are driven by non-appraised sales transactions) is even true, let alone common.

Even if a particular waiver-backed transaction goes off at a higher price - which can also occur with the all-cash or appraiser-backed transaction - that doesn't automatically lead to them being in sufficient quantity or of sufficient effect on the local market as to drive the pricing. Only the brokers act blind to all other sales besides the one they like. Appraisers are supposed to seek the prevailing trend among the many, not cherry pick for the one.

Does the pricing for all-cash and low LTV transactions significantly vary from the pricing for the high-LTV transactions? That's a question any appraiser can answer by simply looking at the reported loan amounts - no heroic measures or undue effort by the appraisers is even necessary. I've used those transactions in my SC since I first started appraising and - so far - I have never noticed the difference in the transaction amounts. Perhaps your lived experience (as the intersectional dogma asserts) is different.

That question isn't exactly the same as to whether or not the AVM-valued transactions at the high LTVs - which so far haven't even occurred - is going to drive the pricing ever-upward. And never-downward. Which the assumption that the GSE AVM will always or almost always come in higher than the appraisals instead of lower than the appraisers is another unsupported allegation. Maybe that assumption is true, maybe it isn't. We don't know. But Fannie/Freddie know. Or at least they can know if they are running their AVM in every deal including the ones with an appraisal.

But separating the high-LTV transactions from all the rest where the buyer is putting in more of their own money - at least it's a start. And you don't need to even wait 5 minutes to start looking at that. If you believe this off-label usage of appraisals is an effective way to prevent price creep in the general RE market then you can start your analysis this morning without waiting for other parties to simply give you the proof you seek.

If you're that sure about your assumption then there's no reason to delay. Get to it.

I have stated many times that my interest in WAIVERS wrt the disclosure is not about appraisers being able to verify it or adjust for it as a comp.

I believe disclosures are needed so that ANYBODY (including appraisers ) can see if WAIVERS in purchase deals are affecting market prices. And without disclosure, it is extremely difficult for anybody, including appraisers, to find out. I don't believe that is a good thing, and it would be very easy for Fannie and Freddie to make that info available to MLS and other sources.

If I feel a need to find out about a WAIVER, was used as part of financing with a comp, I would make calls and attempt to find out. They are part of the financing, and if a financed deal has an odd price, I am not going to use, whether it had a waiver or not- that is my attitude toward it at the present time.

An AVM does not value the WAIVER - the loan officer values it in a refinance, and the SC price is the value a loan officer estimates. The AVM is just a range that the SC price or lender estimate needs to fall within to get green-lighted.

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[Zoe]

You are either Jewish or you are not. I'm not trying to hear about some distant nonsense. You opened Pandora's Box with your ANTISEMITIC crap. Now you can deal with those who actually had family in the concentration camps. Your perception of the Jewish people is warped. Those of us who have to deal with people like you, uneducated and ignorant. If you ever need a history lesson face to face I will be more than happy to cruise to Tennessee and provide that lesson. Then you will comprehend the full definition of FAFO. I will say it loud and clear. I don't like you or the crap that came out of your mouth today.

2025 to whom? The Holy Spirit never lies about the creator. You can attack me all you like.

I know the creator is a Jew. I know his father's name. etc.etc.

I know the creator was born in Bethlehem. Joseph and Mary went to pay taxes to Caesar.

 

[Zoe]

2025 testifies to:

BC, AD, CE, and BCE: Meanings and Differences Explained - Calendarr

BC and AD are labels used to count the number of years. BC means ' Before Christ ' and AD stands for ' Anno Domini ', a Latin term which means 'Year of Our Lord' in English. The BC/AD dating system was created with respect to the birthdate of Jesus Christ, which is considered the central starting...

www.calendarr.com

 

[J Grant]

t.

That question isn't exactly the same as to whether or not the AVM-valued transactions at the high LTVs - which so far haven't even occurred - is going to drive the pricing ever-upward. And never-downward. Which the assumption that the GSE AVM will always or almost always come in higher than the appraisals instead of lower than the appraisers is another unsupported allegation. Maybe that assumption is true, maybe it isn't. We don't know. But Fannie/Freddie know. Or at least they can know if they are running their AVM in every deal including the ones with an appraisal.

GSE AVMS- It looks like we are speaking about them differently.

Their AVM does not provide the point value for a WAIVER - the loan officer, or some party at the lender level provides a point value estimate in a refinance, and the SC price is the value in a purchase.
The GSE AVM provides range that the SC price or lender estimate needs to fall within to get green-lighted.

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[J Grant]

But separating the high-LTV transactions from all the rest where the buyer is putting in more of their own money - at least it's a start. And you don't need to even wait 5 minutes to start looking at that. If you believe this off-label usage of appraisals is an effective way to prevent price creep in the general RE market then you can start your analysis this morning without waiting for other parties to simply give you the proof you seek.

If you're that sure about your assumption then there's no reason to delay. Get to it.

First of all, I never assumed it or that it is always high. I mentioned in another post it can be high or low - And it was not an assumption; it was a possibility, and the point was without disclosure, it I not possible for people to run enough comparisons at scale to tell

WRt your flippant reply - no reason to delay I can get started right way with high LTV transactions - WAIVERS have been used in all kinds of transitions, and I, or anybody wanting to ferret them out would have to spend enormous amounts of time trying to do so and agents or RE brokers might not have known if they were used or want to share that it was used.

 

[bluechip]

2025 to whom? The Holy Spirit never lies about the creator. You can attack me all you like.

I know the creator is a Jew. I know his father's name. etc.etc.

I know the creator was born in Bethlehem. Joseph and Mary went to pay taxes to Caesar.

Zoe, I can't stress this enough. STFU.