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REO sales and "Market Value"

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So from your comments may I conclude that you also hold the TAFs stated opinion of the matter in low regard?

P.S., there's nothing conflicting about those references. That is, unless you think taking one sentence out of context is the way to support your perspectives.
 
Pardon me, but aren't you operating with an imaginary halo again? (veteran USPAP instructor, etc, as if they are all of one mind on this topic. I can think of more than one USPAP instructor that has posted on this topic but has better things to do than butt heads with you.

There is contradictory authoritative information that has been presented & I think Zwerg & others have ranked the sources logically, with APB #3 ranked 1st & AI Guide note 11 ranked 2nd.

You can hang your hat on the other sources, a letter with an intended use of heading off unfavorable legislation in a political arena & RK's preference for court decisions not on point with the intended use of FIRREA MV appraisals. That is more like working with a butterfly net.

BTW and FTR, please allow me to apologize for not immediately recognizing your true identity. I must admit that you had me going for a while there. I should have realized from the outset that no CG from California working with the datasets we have here would ever be so stupid as to not recognize the obvious in their own work. Call me slow.

I will say that I think it's misleading for you to portray yourself in your ID line as being local to markets you don't work in, but that's between you and Wayne. Now that I (belatedly) realize who you are I will consider the source of your comments and respond accordingly.
 
BTW and FTR, please allow me to apologize for not immediately recognizing your true identity. I must admit that you had me going for a while there. I should have realized from the outset that no CG from California working with the datasets we have here would ever be so stupid as to not recognize the obvious in their own work. Call me slow.

I will say that I think it's misleading for you to portray yourself in your ID line as being local to markets you don't work in, but that's between you and Wayne. Now that I (belatedly) realize who you are I will consider the source of your comments and respond accordingly.

:beer::clapping::beer:

Bravo, George.
 
Gotcha. It is not a "Standard" until it is published in USPAP.

Doesn't matter if the writer is head of the ASC, ASB, or USofA, until it hits an officially published Standard, Advisory Opinion, FAQ, or the new one called a "Guideline" it is supplemental information and is not binding. Potentially useful in context, but not out of context like you try to push.

Thanks for playing! ;)




Actually, it seems to me that your logic is faulty.

When two people can read the same documents over and over and their interpretations continue to vary it may be that the topic is not one of logic and science but has strayed into the territory of "belief" ... :shrug:

BTW, one thing that is stated in Guidenote 11 is that if one uses a distressed sale and does not adjust the appraiser must comment. Any argument on that?





Yeah, but we *should* all be interpreting the definitions the same way, the fact that we are not is concerning.

The AIRREA 8th Edition definition would seem to fit George's and JGrant's interpretation and if that one was used I would have no arguments except to ask "are you stating the specific market conditions in your report?"

The Rev.Ed. definition appears more similar to the current and has those two terms that cause trouble: "fair sale" and "undue stimulus". We not have some appraisers claiming the meaning of "undue" is "atypical for the local market".




Actually, we "discussed" Guidenote 11 at length for most the thread. Turns out it is possible for some people to interpret that differently than others. :(

I thought USPAP set M I N I M U M standards. Many seek to meet AND exceed those minimum standards.

And perhaps this is why there will eventually be analysts and form fillers.
 
You can hang your hat on the other sources, a letter with an intended use of heading off unfavorable legislation in a political arena & RK's preference for court decisions not on point with the intended use of FIRREA MV appraisals. That is more like working with a butterfly net.

Yeah, and you are the expert that knows what a bankruptcy appraisal intended use is and the difference between fair market value as defined by court precedence and FIRREA market value.

What strikes me funny is the creditor had loaned money on a residential home using that FIRREA market value however, the court used fair market value to convert a secured debt with the home as collateral into unsecured debt simply using the definition of FMV and then bankrupted that debt. That should tell everyone that FIRREA market value is not supreme in its interpretation by you.

BTW - here is the precedence, intended use and definition of fair market value:


Bankruptcy Code section 506(a)(1) instructs that when a court is requested to determine the value of collateral, "such value shall be determined in light of the purpose of the valuation and of the proposed disposition or use of such property..." 11 U.S.C. § 506(a)(1). When the debtors intend to stay in their house, the proper valuation of the house under Bankruptcy Code section 506(a) is the fair market value. Taffi v. United States of America (In re Taffi). 96 F.3d, 1190, 1192 (9th Cir. 1996).

The fair market value is "the price which a willing seller under no compulsion to sell and a willing buyer under no compulsion to buy would agree upon after the property has been exposed to the market for a reasonable time." Taffi, 96 F.3d at 1192. Debtors intend to stay in the Property, cure the loan owed to US Bank, and treat the Giffords as general unsecured creditors.

Nice to know that someone who declares himself as an expert on bankruptcy but has never done an appraisal for bankruptcy can interpret FMV as nothing in common to lending and use. Try reading up on these definitions before you spew your BS.


899 • Market value
900 The major focus of most real property appraisal assignments. Both economic and legal
901 definitions of market value have been developed and refined. The most widely accepted
902 components of market value are incorporated in the following definition:

903 The most probable price that the specified property interest should sell for in a
904 competitive market after a reasonable exposure time, as of a specified date, in cash, or in
905 terms equivalent to cash, under all conditions requisite to a fair sale, with the buyer and
906 seller each acting prudently, knowledgeably, for self-interest, and assuming that neither is
907 under duress
.
 
BTW and FTR, please allow me to apologize for not immediately recognizing your true identity. I must admit that you had me going for a while there. I should have realized from the outset that no CG from California working with the datasets we have here would ever be so stupid as to not recognize the obvious in their own work. Call me slow.

I will say that I think it's misleading for you to portray yourself in your ID line as being local to markets you don't work in, but that's between you and Wayne. Now that I (belatedly) realize who you are I will consider the source of your comments and respond accordingly.

Dare I say it? Who is that mystery CG appraiser masquerading from California? And takes on DMZerg and ResGuy as their MENTOR? :laugh:
 
I admittedly have not had time to peruse this entire thread but it's almost unfathomable that this argument continues despite the references below. I still have one more thing I need to research regarding this topic and if and when I get a few spare minute, I will.

-References and Opinions for the Appropriate Use of 'Distressed' Market Data in Real Estate Valuations:

1) United States Bankruptcy Court, Northern California District, Case Number 10-50394-ASW, Victoria and Annaliza Duarte Debtors, Memorandum Decision Re: Motion to Determine Value and Status of Junior Lienholder's Claim. (Use of Short Sales and Bank Owned Market Data).

[url]http://www.bankruptcymastery.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/07/duarte-dueling-appraisers.pdf[/URL]

2) Appraisal Foundation - Appraisal Opinion AO-13:

[url]http://appraiserworkshops.blogspot.com/2011/06/appraisal-foundation-q.html[/URL]

3) Appraisal Institute -

[url]http://info.appraisalinstitute.org/blog/bid/119155/Appraisal-Institute-Helps-Appraisers-Choose-Comparable-Sales-in-Declining-Markets[/URL]

 
Its time to play the music
Its time to light the lights
Its time to meet the muppets on the Muppet Show tonight.

Its time put on makeup
Its time to dress up right
Its time to raise the curtain on the Muppet Show tonight

Who is that Muppet? Time to expose the muppet puppet!
woohoo


<MODERATOR EDIT>


JSmith43 is not who he says he is and he is not licensed in the state of California. You cannot believe or trust this man.
 
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Bancruptcy court??? Are you serious??? Good grief. :icon_rolleyes:
 
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