REO sales and "Market Value"

[George Hatch]

Kind of a non sequitur to a discussion of appraising, but whatever works for you.

Personally, I think you might have had more influence on their current condition had you been able to get to them back when they were making the foolish errors that got them into their respective messes.

If you think their current problem is being created by REOs then you're wrong - the REOs are just the symptom. For the most part they're the logical and inevitable result of the decisions most of these borrowers and all of these lenders made during the last bull run - those being the real problem. There's not enough money in the world to cure every underwater debtor's problem, and even if there was that money currently belongs to someone else.

 

[JSmith43]

The whole "REO DISCUSSION" is one damned greek tragedy.

Well, there is no political forum any more, and even if you put up a new solutions based thread, it will likely spin into a political pie fight.

From my point of view, one must dig down for the understanding of this mess and not stop at the lenders. All the destructive government initiatives of the last 80 years which distort and/or otherwise interfere with pricing of risk must be considered.

Joe lunch bucket found himself competing with illegal immigrants able to finance homes & leverage out like never before only through emerging market programs & other financial schemes with fancy names. In the aftermath of 9/11 that niche got pushed back a bit as tracking of assets & identity became a priority due to recognition of terrorism threats. An unintended benefit, for sure.

Illegal alien loans was but a sliver of an example. There were an ever growing set of schemes, one of the more famous, the 503C charitable gift entities that essentially legally money laundered away any cash out of pocket requirement. CRA requirements for banks to do business in minority areas motivated banks to develop a certain type of lending volume in order to be able to do other banking business. Plus there was lots of "do gooder" causes by local politicians preying on the public school educated, I guess. A lack of education in economic theory, etc.

Local government initiatives sprouted with all sorts of bond based subsidies for down payment assistance, bought down rates, etc. Buyers that fit into "special" categories got special benefits.

Joe lunch bucket buyer had to compete with all sorts of buyers backed by bond money, 503C entities, etc. No wonder the prices got bid up to the sky. The competition was about as welcome to the buyer as REO competition is to sellers in the current environment.

The direction I would like to see this go is to privatize the GSE's, privatize appraisal standards & licensing, letting each state go as they see fit.

George knows this and detests me for what are my views of the best economic solution, which busts his USPAP bubble. But does it really? He has pointed out in the past how similar USPAP evolved to professional standards (3 year pizza delivery disclosure, etc excepted, of course).

You say you want a revolution, we all want to change the World. But if you're talking about destruction, you can count me out. An orderly renovation of the appraisal regulatory paradigm along with making the lending paradigm sustainable and survivable without subsidy is what the goal should be, IMO.

 

[Terrel L. Shields]

The direction I would like to see this go is to privatize the GSE's, privatize appraisal standards & licensing, letting each state go as they see fit.

preaching to the choir here.

 

[George Hatch]

Personally, I don't much care who controls appraisal standards or, within reason, what those standards are. I mean, I'd rather see appraisers in charge of appraisal standards but if you guys think that your clients or the realty agents should be king then knock yourselves out. Be my guest.

Regardless of who sets appraisal standards you guys still aren't going to like being told what your minimums are. That's a fact.

 

[residentialguy]

Regardless of who sets appraisal standards you guys still aren't going to like being told what your minimums are. That's a fact.

Why do you say that? My reports are well over minimum standards. I don't like stupid stips that have nothing to do with providing a credible report, if that's what you mean. It may bother the minimalist report appraiser, like you've acknowledged that you are....so maybe you're speaking for yourself

 

[George Hatch]

Actually, I directed my last to The-New-Mr-Smith and Terrell who have both been complaining about licensing and government meddling in their appraisal work since the beginning. Moreover, I directed the comment to those sentiments, not their work, which I'm sure is just fine.

As for what is and isn't minimalism you might want to take a step back on that one. I just submitted a 55-page narrative on a simple little $425k piece of industrial land that contains all sorts of written analysis that far surpasses what shows up in most any URAR appraisal report. Just because I advocate fitting the workproduct to the use and user doesn't mean I cut corners I shouldn't cut.

 

[Mr Rex]

Resguy with the "beyond minimum" Otis template CYA report with more pages of CYA boilersheit than real content (sorry Oti) throwing stones is beyond laughable.

 

[Mile High Trout]

but if you guys think that your clients or the realty agents should be king then knock yourselves out. Be my guest.

You're my personal hero of the day!

Sometimes you've gotta love em or leave em. I've learned in a very short period that my honest efforts simply don't fit well with some clients. One time I even had an MB respond to me that he "Didn't have time to read a dang novel about the subject property." He really went bonkers over a few page addenda. Funny story. True story.

If you think their current problem is being created by REOs then you're wrong

HAHA. Please allow me to post an interesting link regarding that subject.
2012 RON PAUL vs. BEN BERNANKE - 3 Brutal Rounds - YouTube

Just today I watched the every Zimbabwian is a Millionaire video, and also looked at the Rebel Silver thing. Might just order up a pure troy ounce myself. At the current ratios, I could invest a fifth to a quarter of my available credit in silver, then repay the whole credit debt in the future with that sliver of silver. Rationalize that one if you're like Mr Hatch says; thinking the REO and credits behind them is the cause not the effect. Let me ask you: "Who owns your candidate?"

Oh Crankymuffins! Are we talking monetary value?

 

[residentialguy]

Resguy with the "beyond minimum" Otis template CYA report with more pages of CYA boilersheit than real content (sorry Oti) throwing stones is beyond laughable.

umm hmmm...there are posters here that have seen my work that will disprove that none supported, plucked from your arse statement.

 

[George Hatch]

You're my personal hero of the day!

Sometimes you've gotta love em or leave em. I've learned in a very short period that my honest efforts simply don't fit well with some clients. One time I even had an MB respond to me that he "Didn't have time to read a dang novel about the subject property." He really went bonkers over a few page addenda. Funny story. True story.


HAHA. Please allow me to post an interesting link regarding that subject.
2012 RON PAUL vs. BEN BERNANKE - 3 Brutal Rounds - YouTube

Just today I watched the every Zimbabwian is a Millionaire video, and also looked at the Rebel Silver thing. Might just order up a pure troy ounce myself. At the current ratios, I could invest a fifth to a quarter of my available credit in silver, then repay the whole credit debt in the future with that sliver of silver. Rationalize that one if you're like Mr Hatch says; thinking the REO and credits behind them is the cause not the effect. Let me ask you: "Who owns your candidate?"

Oh Crankymuffins! Are we talking monetary value?

Do you really think monetary value, fiat currencies and the like have anything to do with some borrowers owing far more on their homes than they're worth vs other borrowers who don't?