Square Footage Inclusion

[Shannon Short]

I had an appraisal done on my house in order to get a value so that I could price the house appropriately. I got a contract on the house and the buyer was VA. The VA appraiser came out, measured the house three times because he said "he couldn't get the measurments right," and then proceeded to turn in the appraisal for 100 sq/ft less than the first appraisal. I looked at both appraisals and found that the first appraisal included the stair area in the downstairs square footage and also in the upstairs square footage because it was "air conditioned livable space." The VA appraiser didn't include this area which is the 100 sq/ft difference. Who is right? This particular VA appraiser has a bad reputation and I've heard this from real estate professionals. Is there anything I can do about this?

 

[Mr Rex]

Stairways are included per ANSI standards, don't know what standard they are using. Per ANSI the area of the stairs is included in the area they descend from and the area below the stairs is included in the floor area below. So in a 2 story house, the stairway is included in the 2nd floor sf and the area below is included with the 1st floor GLA. Only exception is if the stairway is bigger than the hole in the floor for the stairs, since then if you counted all of the stairway, the 2nd floor sf would be bigger than the overall sf using outside dimensions. Also, any open areas with no stairway below is deducted from the 2nd floor sf.

 

[wyecoyote]

This particular VA appraiser has a bad reputation and I've heard this from real estate professionals. Is there anything I can do about this?

Who is saying this the loan officer/mortgage broker and real estate agents? Most loan officers/mortgage brokers and real estate agents say that an appraiser is "bad" if they don't "play ball" with them. In other words if they call for neccessary repairs, point out defects with a house, and/or give an accurate opinion of market value. That is what most consider "bad" appraiser.

As to the square footage. Without knowing your area as to how mearsurments are taken by county assessor or other data sources it is hard to determine. For example does the county assessor typical remove the square footage of the stairwell from their GLA squaer footage or do they include them. One has to compare or try to compare like to like. So if it is typical for the stairwell square footage to be removed then one should try to do this. If however, it is not removed then IMHO one should not remove this from the square footage. Without knowing how the measurments of the comparables in your area it would be difficult to know for certain. Since the answer is best with it depends. Your house is it a 1,000 square foot house or a 4,000 square foot house. The size can make a difference as well. Is the area an open foyer area?

Is the buyer complaining about the difference in the square footage? In other words is the buyer saying that you represented the house as being XXXX square feet and saying they made the contract based upon that and the their contract price should be XXXX-100 square feet?

I would suggest including your city and state so perhaps an appraiser who is familliar with your market might better answer.

 

[Shannon Short]

I've actually head this person has a bad rep from mortgagers, real estate agents, and 2 appraisers. So...

the area where the stairs are is an open foyer area by the front door that extends up to the second floor. So what I'm understanding is that this area should be subracted from the second floor square footage?

 

[Pamela Crowley (Florida)]

Do you have the sketches from both? If so, will you fax them to me so I can attempt to help? 321-281-4734

 

[Mr Rex]

If there is an open area (you would have to be able to fly to occupy) it is typically deducted from the 2nd floor.

But as Ryan again points out, there are some regional differences in measurement standards, so include your location, someone in the area might be able to clarify.

 

[wyecoyote]

I've actually head this person has a bad rep from mortgagers, real estate agents, and 2 appraisers. So...

the area where the stairs are is an open foyer area by the front door that extends up to the second floor. So what I'm understanding is that this area should be subracted from the second floor square footage?

If it is an open floor area on the second level. Like Mike said if you have to be able to fly to occupy it. Then typically (In my area) this would be subtracted from the second floor square footage. UNLESS it is typical to be included in the Assessor's measurments. In other words if for example I have say two model match sales and the subject's square footage per the county are exactly the same say 2,500 square feet per county but measurments show 2,400 square feet per my measurments and the 100 square feet is included by the assessor. Then and only possibly then I would include that area. But with some explaining of the measurements and exactly why. 99.9999% of the time in MY AREA the second level open area is not included in the assessors square footage.

As to the "bad" rep of the appraiser I can not say for certain. Nor would I take the word of an agent or loan officer. As to the other appraisers perhaps they have had run ins with him in the past or perhaps not. Very hard to determine either way.

 

[Lobo Fan]

Clerstory areas are not included in the GLA (gross living area). The ANSI standards were changed regarding stairwells. The appraiser that is deducting them may be old school. Clerstory areas and stairwells can be tricky to measure. It might be that the first guy just measured from the outside and got lazy with the clerstory.

Also a "bad" appraiser is anyone that doesn't make value. A "good" appraiser never jinxes a deal.

I suggest you break out a tape measure and double check the measurements. Determine for yourself which one you think is most correct.

 

[Shannon Short]

I guess I have sour grapes because this guy is a VA appraiser and I really want this buyer to have the house because they are great folks. If his appraisal stands, which I am suspect of because he admittedly couldn't get the measurements to "come out," then the whole deal becomes a nightmare for both of us (buyer and seller). If the first appraiser is wrong, then I've lost a deal over a faulty appraisal. What is one to do? I tried to do my due dilligence and be prepared. I'm kind of at a loss right now...

I live in Central Texas (Taylor County)

 

[Shannon Short]

Pamela

You have a fax I beleive.. thanks for your help.