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'The Sky is Falling' Narrative

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Interesting how cost trumps all with some folks -- environment be d@mned.
I'm as pro-conservation as anyone, but ethanol isn't worth it. I read a study that ethanol production requires 70% more energy than the actual energy created by ethanol. Add in the tens (hundreds?) of thousands of acres of cropland that are converted from woods or prairie that are stimulated by artificial subsidies which are yet another giveaway to farmers, and it becomes a clear net negative from multiple perspectives, not just monetary
 
I'm as pro-conservation as anyone, but ethanol isn't worth it. I read a study that ethanol production requires 70% more energy than the actual energy created by ethanol. Add in the tens (hundreds?) of thousands of acres of cropland that are converted from woods or prairie that are stimulated by artificial subsidies which are yet another giveaway to farmers, and it becomes a clear net negative from multiple perspectives, not just monetary
could you cite the source of said study?

Giveaway to farmers? You mean those feeling the brunt of the current easy to win trade war?

Converted woods or prairie? I think you might be confusing the US with the Amazon rainforest.
 
could you cite the source of said study?

Giveaway to farmers? You mean those feeling the brunt of the current easy to win trade war?
Yes, the ones that just received an extra "subsidy" this year to ensure their vote

Converted woods or prairie? I think you might be confusing the US with the Amazon rainforest.
You are completely right - only rainforests matter. Any wildlife habitat in the U.S. is fair game for cropland!
 
Well, actually, not so. Professors Pimentel and Patzek have published several studies on this subject, and these have been thoroughly and repeatedly debunked in the scientific literature, in government reports from the Department of Energy and Department of Agriculture, in congressional testimony, and elsewhere. (Much of this information is collected on the website of the Department of Energy’s Alternative Fuels Data Center.) Reputable scientists have publicly called the work of Pimentel and Patzek “shoddy,” “unconvincing,” and lacking in basic scientific transparency. The most recent dissection of their claims, appearing in the journal Science in January 2006, found that their results depended upon “some input data that are old and unrepresentative of current [ethanol-production] processes, or so poorly documented that their quality cannot be evaluated.”

One of the most harsh, clear, and forceful critiques of the Pimentel-Patzek studies has come from Bruce E. Dale, a professor of chemical engineering at Michigan State University. Among the many errors Dale has identified is that Pimentel’s work uses figures for corn yields that are too low, and figures for the amount of energy required to produce ethanol that are too high, all because they are seriously outdated. Dale also found that Pimentel’s work has wrongly assumed that all corn is irrigated when only about 15 percent of it is (resulting in exaggerated energy costs for the irrigation of ethanol-producing corn), and that Pimentel failed to assign any energy credit for the animal feed produced as a byproduct of ethanol production. Not only does Professor Dale argue that the energy balance for producing ethanol is significantly positive, but he has also pointed out that the balance of liquid fuel is enormously favorable: more than six gallons of ethanol are produced for every gallon of gasoline or diesel fuel expended in the process. That is a much more relevant metric for ethanol policy, as Dale explained in a 2005 debate with Patzek and Pimentel hosted by the National Corn Growers Association: “We do not need energy per se; we need the services energy provides.... The U.S. has lots of coal and natural gas, but they don’t work in the gas tank. They have the wrong energy quality.”

So how could two such distinguished professors be so wrong? The answer would surely horrify Hassett had he bothered to look into the matter. Patzek, the Berkeley professor, is an accomplished geoengineer with extensive ties to the oil industry; he seems only to have been writing about biofuels for the last few years. But Pimentel, the Cornell professor emeritus, is an entomologist who has been complaining about ethanol since the early 1980s. And he’s not just an opponent of ethanol production. He is also an opponent of beef production. He is a critic of the use of pesticides and opposes much of modern agriculture. He is highly critical of pet cats and dogs. He’s against immigration — both legal and illegal — and ran for a position on the board of the liberal Sierra Club in 2004 on a platform calling for a halt to all immigration. (He was defeated.)

And then there are babies. Professor Pimentel believes there should be fewer of them. Far fewer. According to Pimentel, the Earth’s “carrying capacity” is 2 billion people. The world’s population needs an “adjustment” down to that number, he wrote in the inaugural issue of the journal Environment, Development and Sustainability, and he called for a “democratically determined population control policy” requiring “that each couple produces an average of 1.5 children” to make that happen by the year 2010. (The United States population, he says, should be reduced to under 200 million people.)

Politics surely makes strange bedfellows. But it’s especially strange, and more than a little disappointing, to see Kevin Hassett — a pro-growth economist — quoting the discredited science of a radical Malthusian like David Pimentel. Surely, there are problems with America’s ethanol subsidy program and unsettled questions about the ultimate value of ethanol compared with other potential sources of energy. But it is foolish to allow a general opposition to subsidies to morph into an anti-scientific ideology, getting seduced by shoddy data that support the claims that one wants to make anyway.

And surely the Bush energy plan is fraught with excess — both in the various projects it funds and the rhetoric (“addicted to oil”) it now employs. But it is obvious that we have an energy problem — an excessive reliance on undemocratic petroleum-producing states, some of which fund terrorism — that the free market alone will not solve. Which means a little government largesse in search of new energy alternatives is perhaps a tolerable price to pay, even for a bona fide free-marketeer.

 
Bert Crayter...:

Bannon is a mover. One might say the brain trust behind Trump in 2016 was Parscale and Bannon. [Although Bannon overplayed his significance, - as Parscale worked very much behind the scenes. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brad_Parscale. ... Parscale by the way was the software developer that wrote Trump.com - not a bad website.] But Bannon doesn't take good care of his health and IMO is aging faster than he should.

"Bannon was an officer in the United States Navy for seven years in the late 1970s and early 1980s; he served on the destroyer USS Paul F. Foster as a surface warfare officer in the Pacific Fleet, and afterwards stateside as a special assistant to the Chief of Naval Operations at the Pentagon.[71] Bannon's job at the Pentagon was, among other things, handling messages between senior officers and writing reports about the state of the Navy fleet worldwide.[72] While at the Pentagon, Bannon attended Georgetown University at night and obtained his master's degree in national security studies.[64]

In 1980, Bannon was deployed to the Persian Gulf to assist with Operation Eagle Claw during the Iran hostage crisis. The mission's failure marked a turning point in his political world-view from largely apolitical to strongly Reaganite, which was further reinforced by the September 11 attacks.[73][74] Bannon has stated, "I wasn't political until I got into the service and saw how badly Jimmy Carter ****ed things up. I became a huge Reagan admirer. Still am. But what turned me against the whole establishment was coming back from running companies in Asia in 2008 and seeing that Bush had ****ed up as badly as Carter. The whole country was a disaster."[75]

Upon his departure he was ranked as a lieutenant (O-3).[1][a]"

While Ensign (O1) Bannon was tooling around on the Foster (DD 964) I was on my second tour aboard the USS STERETT (CG 31) in the Indian Ocean and the Gulf of Oman (Hormuz Straight.) We completed a mission in Bandar Abbas, Iran servicing and training on the surface-to-surface missile systems we sold to the Shah. A program Reagan illegally continued in order to fund the war with the Contras.

By 1980, I was assigned to the nuclear weapons vault for Commander Naval Surface Fleet Pacific. Ted Koppel was still counting the days of the Iranian Hostage Crisis. We were all on pins and needles. That mission failed because we had to depend on helicopters and vehicles suited for use in the jungles of Vietnam instead of the sands of Iran. It was horrifying to us. I cannot tell you what I know or what my security clearances and "need to know" consisted of in full, but I can tell you I was clear for TS, SCI, ATOMOL and CRYPTO. It was about 200 feet from the Seal Team facility. We kept tract of certain swimmer or special force delivered nuclear devices. They weigh about 150 pounds and have a variable yield from 1 kt to 15 kt, depending on the version (SADM or MADM.) These devices are no longer manufactured but I believe they are still in our inventory. They could be deployed to block the man-made harbor of one of your "stationary aircraft carriers" or irradiate the entire facility making it impossible to use.

We all managed to get through this without become paranoid, alt-right types.

As to Parscale, he was a digital media manager that has been promoted to T's 2020 campaign manager. Media stories are reporting that he is blowing millions on cars and real estate, even though his reported salary is only $15k per month. In the mid-2000's he and his family lost their business to bankruptcy. Which is one of the reasons his recent spending spree seems suspicious.
 

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We all managed to get through this without become paranoid, alt-right types.

...and parlay all that into a career of appraising. If only Bannon was so successful.
 
He has lots of money. I don't have lots of money.
 
If you want lots of money, there's that.

If you want a country to be proud of, then that's something different.
 
If you want lots of money, there's that.

If you want a country to be proud of, then that's something different.

Because you disagree with Steve Bannon, people should not be proud of our country?
 
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