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This Won't end Well for Germany

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Invite Russia to join NATO​

I would extend an invitation to join NATO to any Russian government that would agree to remove Vladimir Putin and at least pay lip service to our principles. We can always kick them out again after we figure out how their air defense system works.
 
Here is the hard question. If Putin invades and we sanction Russian oil, what happens to the cost of oil now that our domestic production has diminished and we are partially dependent on said sanctioned oil?
 
I think that George W. Bush actually did believe what he was trying to sell (elections would lead to Western-style democracies), Cheney and Rumsfeld however suffered under no such aspirations and saw American forces abroad as a way to control the world's resources which were to be divided up amongst the oligarchs & robber barons. I hate the fact that freely held elections in Muslim countries automatically leads to Sharia law which denies women education & basic human rights. I'm not sure where that puts me on the "neocon spectrum" however I hear the struggling heartbeats of liberty and freedom being smothered (aborted?) with all the "America First" isolationism being admitted from the new right wing during the present crisis.
I wouldn't know a neocon unless I found one in my shower wearing a swim cap with that lable on it. "Neocon" is one of those pejorative "dog whistles" that sounds bad and was used to criticize W and other statists hiding under the bleachers in the Republican tent. And to argue that the interests of the US were not in natural resources isn't something I care to do. There aren't very many places where representative government was tried that it was successful other than in those with historical, cultural, ethical and religious roots in Western Europe (where the transition from anarchy to monarcy to representative government took centuries). (India is an interesting country in many ways - it was almost 200 years under British rule, and seems to have used the bureaucracy as the framework for its government after its independence.)

The Muslims' maintenance of sharia law is deep seated and cultural, and not likely to be abandoned.

As to America first isolationism and some "new right wind", I'd have to have you 'splain that. We still are involved militarily in other parts of the world (LIbya, Syria, Somalia?). And I don't believe that the majority of people in the United States would tolerate much more of our too long involvement in Afghanistan: we - like Alexander the Great - finally came to realize that we would not conquer their people. I, for one, don't see how we can do anything immediate and substantive in Ukraine or with Russia. We've shown that our "red lines in the sand" are attached to invitations to nations who aren't our friends to keep on doing what you're doing while our Fearless Leader(s) mumble vague non-threats.
 
wouldn't know a neocon
Democrat Scoop Jackson was the first I believe that was called that. Bill Kristol was an aid to Scoop if I recall correctly then became Bush II's chief of Neocon...err, staff. Along with Chaney they were advocates of Be democratic or we blow you to L. Bush was too milquetoast to resist the temptation to resume his daddy's war mongering. The never-Trumper RINOs are war mongers and hated DT for his efforts to exert a strong defense posture while resisting the effort to "convert" others to our way of thinking. That's why ISIS got hammered and why they are now coming back.
 
The never-Trumper RINOs are war mongers and hated DT for his efforts to exert a strong defense posture while resisting the effort to "convert" others to our way of thinking. That's why ISIS got hammered and why they are now coming back.
 
As to America first isolationism and some "new right wind", I'd have to have you 'splain that. We still are involved militarily in other parts of the world (LIbya, Syria, Somalia?). And I don't believe that the majority of people in the United States would tolerate much more of our too long involvement in Afghanistan: we - like Alexander the Great - finally came to realize that we would not conquer their people. I, for one, don't see how we can do anything immediate and substantive in Ukraine or with Russia. We've shown that our "red lines in the sand" are attached to invitations to nations who aren't our friends to keep on doing what you're doing while our Fearless Leader(s) mumble vague non-threats.
All you have to do is examine the posts from the diehard Trump defenders on this board and you will find people who would rather cave into Russian aggression than even man the ramparts their father's generation built to prevent Europe from backsliding into World War III. Some even admire Vlad's "strength" like rats being hypnotized by a snake. We are watching the Russian equivalent of Hitler reclaiming the German-speaking territories of the Sudetenland in preparation for the subjugation of Europe. Again. Unfortunately our nation and our alliances have been thoroughly divided from within and are seemingly incapable of a coherent, unified response. Which was Vladimir's long-term goal when supporting Trump during the 2016 election.
 
All you have to do is examine the posts from the diehard Trump defenders on this board and you will find people who would rather cave into Russian aggression than even man the ramparts their father's generation built to prevent Europe from backsliding into World War III. Some even admire Vlad's "strength" like rats being hypnotized by a snake. We are watching the Russian equivalent of Hitler reclaiming the German-speaking territories of the Sudetenland in preparation for the subjugation of Europe. Again. Unfortunately our nation and our alliances have been thoroughly divided from within and are seemingly incapable of a coherent, unified response. Which was Vladimir's long-term goal when supporting Trump during the 2016 election.
I missed the part in history class where the West secured Ukraine from the Soviet Union after World War II. Nobody here likes Putin, he's basically a mafia boss. At this point, comparing what Putin is doing to Hitler's land grab in the Thirties is quite silly.
 
I missed the part in history class where the West secured Ukraine from the Soviet Union after World War II. Nobody here likes Putin, he's basically a mafia boss. At this point, comparing what Putin is doing to Hitler's land grab in the Thirties is quite silly.
It would've been silly to suggest that Hitler's extraterritorial ambitions would've led to World War II at the time as well. After all, those were just territories Germany lost at the end of World War I and they deserved them back, right? The West freed Eastern Europe by defeating the Soviet Union during the Cold War. Remember Reagan with "Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall" while making a speech in Berlin? We were just trying to be polite by not extending NATO jurisdiction all the way to Russia's borders and given the current security situation in Eastern Europe that looks to have been a mistake.
 
Some even admire Vlad's "strength"
One does not have to "admire" him to recognize his strength and our utter weakness. Trump didn't let Russia buy a Canadian company who gets 20% of its uranium from the US. Obama did. And who got big bucks for a single speech in Moscow. How much Russian money went to the Clinton Foundation? One does not have to "admire" a tyrant but to pretend he is weak is a dangerous strategy. Obama drew a "line in the sand" with Assad...and then refused to cross it. Why? Fear of Russia? He funded anti-Assad people who hate us worse than they hated Assad. And who had the most effective drone targeting? It wasn't Obama. And Obama was famous for saying they had no strategy for dealing with ISIS 'yet'. And ISIS or ISIL whatever, grew enormously under Obama.

Putin has stayed in office by not being weak. He is no dummy. To pretend he is because he is a bloodless tyrant and throwback to the days of Stalin only fools ourselves.
 
All you have to do is examine the posts from the diehard Trump defenders on this board and you will find people who would rather cave into Russian aggression than even man the ramparts their father's generation built to prevent Europe from backsliding into World War III. Some even admire Vlad's "strength" like rats being hypnotized by a snake. We are watching the Russian equivalent of Hitler reclaiming the German-speaking territories of the Sudetenland in preparation for the subjugation of Europe. Again. Unfortunately our nation and our alliances have been thoroughly divided from within and are seemingly incapable of a coherent, unified response. Which was Vladimir's long-term goal when supporting Trump during the 2016 election.

All you have to do is examine the posts from the diehard Trump defenders on this board and you will find people who would rather cave into Russian aggression than even man the ramparts their father's generation built to prevent Europe from backsliding into World War III. Some even admire Vlad's "strength" like rats being hypnotized by a snake. We are watching the Russian equivalent of Hitler reclaiming the German-speaking territories of the Sudetenland in preparation for the subjugation of Europe. Again. Unfortunately our nation and our alliances have been thoroughly divided from within and are seemingly incapable of a coherent, unified response. Which was Vladimir's long-term goal when supporting Trump during the 2016 election.
Looks like you were an easy convert, eh comrade?
 
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