VA Fee Schedule

[Zoe]

AMCs were like a bandaid on the problem. AMCs are not required. separation of fees is not required thus far..

Do you see the correlation if you want to correlate VA fees and private sector fees?

I hope you can discern the correlation.

I wish CFPB would jump in. I think some players already know CFPB has jumped in ankle deep.

 

[RSW]

I am lumping them all VA appraisers together because they are a group, and of course I am speaking of them as such. Do individuals within every group vary? Yep. There are some great hard working public servants working at the DMV too. But as a whole when compared to the rest of appraisers there are certain patterns, which don’t take long to discern. It is a byproduct of the system under which they operate. I’m sure you and every other VA appraiser reading this are the outliers. I don’t speak with any jealously because I’m not in the fee world. I work for a lender and interact with all sorts of appraisers every day, so this is just my observation. My dad was a VA appraiser for 40 years. In terms of entitlement vs. gratitude, look no further than the OP.

I have to take offense to your comments. I, as well as several other appraisers on this forum are VA appraisers . It took me several years to get on the panel and had to jump through a bunch of hoops during the application process. They have a very good vetting process. I know 4 VA apprisers here in the Knoxville area and I would stand behind any appraisal they completed . I take my placement on the VA panel as an honor and would not do anything knowingly to jeopardize it. The VA reviews our appraisals as does a SAR. We will get a letter from the VA if they find any deficiency in our reports. A pattern of them will result in us being removed from the panel.

I agree with Zoe about fees. I will elaborate a bit more, though. Some appraisals are typical and simple while others tend to be more complex requiring a lot more time. We get paid the same for the simple as well as the complex appraisals. I would charge a whole lot more on many appraisals if they were not VA.

 

[TerryRohrer]

Appraisers who are competent don't fear competition. The VA panel is currently similar to the former FHA panel, but significantly more insulated from any and all market forces, and results in an overall product that is inferior to the produced by the old FHA panel. There is no "review" of VA appraisals as most appraisers understand reviews. While they do read the report to insure that "decks" and "fences" and other amenities that have no measurable impact on value are included in the adjustment grid, and to make sure there is no unpainted wood, they don't consider the veracity of adjustments or comp selection or any other commonly considered valuation factors (unless you come in below expected value). Most are singularly motivated to "not do anything knowingly to jeopardize" their place on the panel...objectivity be damned!

 

[Ariba]

IMO it is not so much the fees that make VA appraisers spoiled. It is their poor service, entitlement, and complacency that is a byproduct of being on their panel for many years. VA should do what Amazon does and fire the worst performing 25% every year and give others an opportunity. Instead, VA appraisers operate outside a competitive market and the result is that they act like government employees. I don’t care if my service stinks, I’ll get to it when I get to it.

With your system, we will never have to worry about you being on the VA panel because you will always be in the bottom 25%. And if the VA panel is as poor as you describe, why would you even want to be a part of it?

 

[Zoe]

Appraisers who are competent don't fear competition. The VA panel is currently similar to the former FHA panel, but significantly more insulated from any and all market forces, and results in an overall product that is inferior to the produced by the old FHA panel. There is no "review" of VA appraisals as most appraisers understand reviews. While they do read the report to insure that "decks" and "fences" and other amenities that have no measurable impact on value are included in the adjustment grid, and to make sure there is no unpainted wood, they don't consider the veracity of adjustments or comp selection or any other commonly considered valuation factors (unless you come in below expected value). Most are singularly motivated to "not do anything knowingly to jeopardize" their place on the panel...objectivity be damned!

I cannot tell you how many tidewaters I have done. VA has never complained on me coming in over or under the contract sales price. Your argument is mute. I come in under sales contract price many times. You can believe it or not.

Likewise, I always ask the veteran what they think they would ask for their house on a refinance. I come in over and under what the veteran thinks many, many times. My phone is always open to the VA or the veteran if they have a question.

I know on conventional, or FHA or VA that the borrower will get a copy of my appraisal.

I tell the borrower that they will get a copy of my appraisal. I tell the borrower if they don't, they need to call their lender because I cannot provide a copy to them.

I don't make the market. I read it.

I don't ever disclose confidential information to the borrower. I am under a client/appraiser confidentiality agreement.

In the case of VA, FHA, or Conventional, the lender is always my client. With FHA and VA, the lender is also my client along with VA/FHA.

I haven't done an FHA in a while. However, VA assigns a point of contact that the appraiser needs to relate to. Then there is a SAR or a underwriter that works for VA in a regional loan center.

You can discuss value on anything with a regional loan center or a SAR or an inhouse underwriter in a regional loan center. Understand?

VA or FHA are my client and VA/FHA have very specific people that they want you to share confidential information with.

 

[Zoe]

Let me remind you VA needed no bailout money. VA loves their veterans but they don't want them getting over leveraged with a bank. Or under leveraged. They don't want that.

Tell me one other entity that needed no bailout money. I can name a very few that were well capitalized in small markets and didn't do a ton of business in the secondary market.

If you press me, I'll give you a list of who needed the most bailout money.

That was your money that bailed them out.

 

[Tim Hicks (Texas)]

I can't speak for all VA appraisers, but I can speak for myself as a VA appraiser. We have 10 business day turn times. I rarely take more than 2-3 business days to deliver. It is true that we can ask for a fee increase on difficult assignments, but the assignment usually get reassigned in this area if a fee increase is requested. We get the same fee for a cookie cutter city home as we do for a 5,000 sf home on 20 acres. I accept it and realize it all equals out over time. I don't exclusively do VA appraisals, so I treat every assignment with the same urgency as a VA assignment. Terry and Michigan CG are of the opinion that many VA appraisers are just hacks protected by the VA system. That might be true in some areas and quite possibly their areas, but it is not the dominant factor they think it is. It is my experience that non-VA appraisers can be just as bad or worse than VA appraisers. The knowledge level of the majority of appraisers is the bare minimum as they only know what they were taught and they were taught by some hacks themselves. Each individual appraiser should strive to excel in this business by knowing guidelines, handbooks and proper appraisal procedures inside out. That is just not the case. How many years have we had newbies log on here and ask the most rudimentary questions that every mentor should have taught? All it takes is reviewing a few appraisals to lose faith in our profession. It appears most appraisers in Texas were taught to fake the cost approach from cost factors to land value. Some appraisers still adjust $20 per foot for GLA because that was what they were taught to do and it never occurred to them that that factor might not be correct. Some appraisers think that if the builder finds somebody to pay what they want for the property that is what the property is worth. I could go on and on, but VA appraisers are no worse than all appraisers as a collection.

 

[Zoe]

VA is the best single family residential client I have ever had. Bar none. I encourage any veteran I can to go with VA if they can. Some veterans can't go with VA for various reasons.

They don't like BS like most veterans don't like BS

Make it known I am not a veteran. The military would not take me for medical reasons. I applied. They said we can't Sir. We would love to have you but we can't take you.

 

[Zoe]

Many veterans get a real discount from me on my appraisal fees if they go VA. I promise you that is true.

I love my vets. My VA fee for single family is $650. For many vets if I took the same assignment, it would be like $1,300 or maybe $2,000 on their appraisal fee.

With AMCs, the vet may get charged $1,200 or $2,000 and the AMC keeps more than my fee for their cut. I have no problem explaining that to anybody.

 

[Zoe]

VA is very strict on what the lender can charge the borrower on a VA loan. Understand?

If you don't understand, I can help you understand.