We're Back To The Beginning

[Eli]

Louisiana and FTC will wake some people up. These are not your everyday lawyers.

Like Tom Brady, Muhammad Ali, Tiger Woods. Along that line.

 

[gregb]

Louisiana and FTC will wake some people up. These are not your everyday lawyers.

Just in case pipe dreams get delayed, I would rather put in place a survival plan, as suggested by George Hatch.

 

[Terrel L. Shields]

not because complying with USPAP takes more time/effort.

Do you honestly think an evaluation takes as much time to develop and write as a USPAP compliant report??? Absurd. Most of those here are 4 pages long vs an appraisal of 20+ pages. And they have zero liability. My appraisals are thrice as long to research and develop and the valuation report has no required reconciliation, confirmation, and very limited development. In fact, nothing prevents them from using the cost or income approach as the sole valuation approach. An evaluation is not appraisal lite, it is an entirely different animal no more difficult than running a CMA on the MLS and presenting all the touchstones outlined in the IAG.

 

[Eli]

Just in case pipe dreams get delayed, I would rather put in place a survival plan, as suggested by George Hatch.

When one door closes, another one opens. Risk is key. That’s good for professional appraisers.

 

[George Hatch]

Do you honestly think an evaluation takes as much time to develop and write as a USPAP compliant report??? Absurd. Most of those here are 4 pages long vs an appraisal of 20+ pages. And they have zero liability. My appraisals are thrice as long to research and develop and the valuation report has no required reconciliation, confirmation, and very limited development. In fact, nothing prevents them from using the cost or income approach as the sole valuation approach. An evaluation is not appraisal lite, it is an entirely different animal no more difficult than running a CMA on the MLS and presenting all the touchstones outlined in the IAG.

There are substandard evals, too; so those aren't the apples we're comparing. If that eval was insufficient in the first place then it's non-compliant with the requirements for an eval, too. But as I said, if a given SOW is actually sufficient for a client's use when performed by a non-appraiser then it doesn't become insufficient just because an appraiser does it.

I guarantee you I could do an eval SOW and I would run you or anyone else into the ground who attempted to move the goalpost after the fact. So could anyone do that who understands the material. The whole "USPAP prevents appraisers from competing" line is complete hogwash.

You could fit an "eval" appraisal on one page of original writing and attach the requisite boilerplate and charge whatever fee you think goes with that. If you wanted to. There's no more liability doing that than any other appraisal unless you do stupid things or otherwise fail to do what you said you did.

IRL the main reason most CGs don't want to bother with evals is the same reason most SFR appraisers don't want to deal with desktop or hybrid assignments - It's not a sustainable business model at the fees that the lenders want to pay for them, except possibly as a sideline or fill work.

Speaking of desktops, you're not going to be seeing more than a couple pages of original writing in those reports, either. Thus illustrating my point that the minimums in USPAP really are minimal.

 

[Terrel L. Shields]

Thus illustrating my point that the minimums in USPAP really are minimal.

I don't see how you think you can complete an appraisal as fast or cheap as an unlicensed valuer can complete an evaluation. If you could then you could easily do so for the $175 - $225 evaluation fees because they are doing these in 2 - 3 hours tops, some even less. I did what were minimal IAG (USPAP) reports for one bank (my assistant did most of them) and 4 hours to 6 hours was typical, and we figured we were making about $80/hour average which is my day rate ( oil consulting I charge $600 per day). She normally created a 12-15 pg. summary report with inspection. Evals here are $225 with inspection. We got $325.
The research used to support regional and local data is basically being given away when you do cheaper work, and your compensation is solely for form filling.

 

[George Hatch]

Appraisers have more experience at research and analysis and effective writing. Apples for apples we should be a lot faster and more efficient at these tasks than someone who has never done this full time. Whatever a layperson can do in 2-3 hours, I can do at least that much and probably a lot more.

You don't want to do that level of work, nor work for those fees - and that's fine. Many appraisers feel exactly the same way about those fees and that level of work. But that's your personal preferences adding the additional work; not the clients and not USPAP. You're selling them what you want to sell, not necessarily what they want to buy.

Lookit, you and I are never going to agree on this because we have different opinions on how minimal the bare minimums are. Suffice it to say that the presumption that USPAP prevents appraisers from competing in the market with non-appraisers does not stand unchallenged. And some of the people holding that view most definitely are competent with the material and do know what they're talking about.

 

[Meandering]

Where is the Fannie Mae guidelines for evaluations they will accept?

Or is it that Fannie only buys loans with appraisals or appraisal waivers?

And isn’t that lender’s who use evals are lending their own money and not reselling to the GSEs?

.

 

[djd09]

Fake rent rolls, phony tenants: Charges shed light on alleged $167M mortgage fraud

Here's how it worked

The government accused the four men of developing an elaborate conspiracy to deceive banks into providing $167.59 million in loans on seven apartment properties in New York and Pennsylvania.

The indictment laid out the details of that scheme, in which the defendants allegedly falsified rent rolls, income statements and purchase contracts to inflate the value of properties. That allowed them to get significantly higher mortgage amounts than they would have received had the lenders received accurate information.

https://buffalonews.com/2018/05/23/...charges-against-morgans-broker-detail-scheme/

 

[TRESinc]

That kind of volatility is unsustainable way to do business for appraisers.

Commodities futures are a price sensitive product on international / Wall ST exchange, and has nothing to do with a narrow market of dinky appraisal fee differences making up an individual's career. Is this a joke, comparing Wall ST billion dollar commodores trades to AMC's exploiting appraisers desperation in small fee differences to make a buck . At some point there will be a class action suit bought forth by appraisers just needs the right atty to work on it.

why is it that whenever someone tried to compare the appraisal profession to anything else you always discredit them but when you do it we should all accept whatever thoughts are running around in your head?

Not hire attorneys to battle for C and R, find one good atty file a class action suit for the lost $ siphoned off all these years. Might happen. Class action lawyers work on a contingency basis.

what lost fees? if you agree to complete a report for $175 then you get paid $175. if you agree to $500 then you get paid $500. you didn't "lose" anything if you agree to the price, and last i checked no one has ever been forced to complete a report. it is offered, and accepted, by the appraiser. gheez. entitle much?