What to do when you KNOW something is wrong

[JSmith43]

I think that an important thing to consider with such activism is the vigilante effect. Everyone applauds the average citizen that risks his/her life or limb to tackle a purse snatcher.

Why not take it one step further and tackle the people that look like they were about to snatch a purse? There is a need to explore the side effects of such action.

I am thinking of the border patrol "volunteers" and what a headache they might pose to border agents that are not used to interfacing with them....at least at first. For one thing, certain types of action can screw up a perfectly good stake out or sting operation.

IMO, I think one should consider alternative uses for all the energy and effort to get skippy by virtue of "turning one in" and such. Look at how subjective many of the posts are here. Prosecutorial discretion must be alive and functioning well around here, because silly cases brought by professional prosecutors are relatively rare and they usually make the news they are so rare. Reasonable alternatives should be compared to see where you get the most bang for the buck.

I believe, a low rhetoric factual, informational approach would be far better. Produce a publication that informs purchasers of mortgage backed securities and/or accounting entities that evaluate and/or rate them. Inform them directly. Produce and mail the reports for free to the decision makers.

Ah, but the lure of a wronged Charles Bronson wondering through comp check requests, seeding the clouds that government rain might fall on the skippies, ......it just has too much visceral appeal to some.......bad boys, bad boys, bad boys, what ya gonna do? What ya going to do when they point to you?

Pam, I notice you have not complained FWIW, this is not a personal criticism of your experiment. I don't see how the challenge offered by critique, disclosure of possible shortcomings etc, could do anything but strengthen your strategy and those that choose to tag along.

 

[Stone]

For crying out loud.

What in the world are some of you talking about? From what I've read, all Pam is doing is sending along some adresses that should be flagged for a second look. She isn't attacking any appraisers. She isn't accusing anyone of fraud.

Unless I'm missing something, what she is doing doesn't really have a down-side, unless folks start sending in every property address where they have a difference of opinion with another appraiser. As long as people are reasonable, what is the problem.

FTR - Roger, Mike and Janet (if I'm missing others, forgive me), I have argued against the whole "crusader" business before. It definitely seems to me that some folks feel anyone who has any type of different opinion from theirs is a skippy. While that is garbage, this seems like a really, really good thing.

It isn't anything more than saying "Hey, take a look at 'xyz any street, USA' and make sure nothing is up."

What is the problem with that? Sheesh.

(Or did I miss something? Something I'm sometimes good at...)

 

[Annemieke Roell]

its one thing to sign your name to a legitimate complaint and attach the evidence of wrongdoing................it is quite another to supply an anonymous list of names and addresses to private and governmental agencies with the purpose of targeting them for criminal prosecution of a crime no one even knows has been committed.................

Janet .... if you KNOW that a lender has rejected a file because of a grossly inflated appraisal .... and you KNOW the appraisal was grossly inflated because the appraiser went cherry picking for comps, made up comps etc etc etc. And you KNW this because you have a full workfile showing this.

In that case you also know it is highly likely that the MB will shop this files elsewhere in the hopes they'll hit a lender with a less stringent review process, or no review process at all.

Why would it be so bad to put those addresses on a "watch list"?

 

[Ms. Janet]

What Pam didn't say...this includes assignments YOU (who ever is reading this) turned down because you felt something was amiss or "fishy" with the assignment.



Comp check requests where the value wanted in way out of line is a very good address to send!!!!!

A brief explanation of what kicked up the red flag to you would be nice, but is not necessary.

Everyone that sends me an address with or without an explanation of why they believe something is wrong in that deal is protected as I re-list the addresses in a separate email from me to my list.

apparently no workfile is needed............ as far as i can tell you don't even need a reason.............................

 

[Stone]

apparently no workfile is needed............ as far as i can tell you don't even need a reason.............................

That's probably because you aren't reporting anyone, just saying "take a look" at this address. An appraiser isn't being reported.

All of the lenders have some type of system of checks and balances. This is just another one.

Of course, one sure fire way to get those who are looking at these addresses to stop paying attention would be to send them a bunch of bogus ones.

I still cannot see what the downside is.

 

[Mike Simpson]

"Please...everybody (Mike S., Bob and Roger included), stick to the topic and avoid the personal attacks and "under the breath" insinuations (ie: Crusader) or I'll have to shut this one down and IMNSHO this topic is too important to shut down."

Quite frankly...I don't think you've been here long enough to truly appreciate what some of us think is going on.

Do you know that at one time I was told I "was being considered as Moderator?"

I responded, "no thanks...too busy."

What bothers me about this thread is; some would be do-gooders jump to conclusions freely & with very little provocation!

Let's not forget that in addition to Pam's thread: "Brokers & Investors are conspiring to commit fraud using options"...five days after our telephone discussion regarding the LEGITIMATE use of options (and me being a Broker/Investor & all)...Ms. Pammy has insinuated I'm "reselling investment ideas" I supposedly picked up at some non-existent seminar.

The danger in what's being presented here is; jump to just one mistaken conclusion...accuse just one innocent person of fraud...foul up just once...and your reputation is worthless.

Skippy's at one end of the spectrum--Crusaders are at the other. Neither should be tolerated.

Whole thing reminds me of the Salem Witch hunts.

-Mike

 

[Serge Paquette]

Bad boys, bad boys
Need some more bad boys
Replace the old bad boys

Great to see you posting again Roger.

 

[Bob Ipock]

Most investigations start with a "Red Flag". When I see a "Red Flag" is causes me to dig a little deeper and if warranted I have no problem passing along concerns to Pam or other people who have connection to those that look into probable wrong doing.

If I have evidence in my hand of an appraisal or appraisal review that is misleading, incompetent, fraudulent or not credible I file a complaint with the appraisal board.

Passing along doccumentened information about a "Red Flag" is the first and last step for me. I m neither an investigator, judge or jury.

Enforcement agencies, police, FBI, SBI, lenders etc. all get contacted on a regular baisis with "Red Flags".

I simply see no reason to fear making truthful, accurate accusations against any one who appears to have committed a crime. Make your good faith accusation and let the proper parties sort it out.

I have met Pam, I know Pam and Pam is not on any witch hunt. She is neither a crusader nor vigilantie. She is making a good faith effort to pass along "Red Flags". Keep up the good work Pam.

 

[Annemieke Roell]

apparently no workfile is needed............ as far as i can tell you don't even need a reason.............................

This office will not EVER file a complaint or pass on an address without having determined there is a problem based on a full work file.

And that, in our view, is how it should be done.

 

[Renee Healion]

The problem with this turn-in process is that it smacks of "under the breath insinuation" itself.

With the exception of Annemieke's internal process, it looks to be a process-less process.

There's no process like due process.