Where Do You Think "geographic Competency" Begins And Ends?

[Joe Flacco]

Maybe the qualifications decision is not a big issue for some of you guys near the end but it is a major issue for the future and those that are coming up. Congratulations to you guys advocating rolling back requirements. You guys did nothing to improve the profession.

 

[George Hatch]

So you suggest every residential appraiser drop out of GSE work and do commercial instead? Where would that leave lenders and borrowers?

The supply of appraisers and choice of appraisers alone are not responsible for what happened, res license who got into the field prior to HVCC had no idea it would happen like that. It is not even AMC's that are the problem, it is the blended HUD fee provision exploited by the segment of AMC's and lenders to divert fees from reaching the appraiser- how did our choice, years ago to do residential work lead to that?

Of course st gen license appraisers who also do residential work are affected in arena of GSE work if they choose to do it. .

Personally I am doing well and have some good clients, though if I had to do it over, would have gotten the cert gen license early in career. Then again, if I had to do it over I might not have gone into appraisal -.we are where we are; Blaming appraisers who choose to res work for the abuses that happen on lender or AMC side is another of the positions you take that is harmful to the profession.

Why not put the blame where blame lies for abuses - on those perpetrating them?

I'm not suggesting that, nor am I even assuming that you're capable of doing what I do. The cumulative pass rate for the Income Cap course itself was only 55%, so not everyone who takes it has what it takes to pass that course; as is also the case with the licensing exam.

What I am saying is that you had to fight and beat the odds just to get into the business, and now you have to fight to find a niche you can live with. If you had pursued getting on the VA panel you might not be in the position you're in. If you had moved to a COW state or to some niche in your own state that isn't as overserved you might not be in the position you're in. If you had been lucky with a client or two, or if you had taken a salaried job on an appraisal staff or if you had gone to work for the government or any of a dozen other alternatives your current situation as a member of an extremely large herd might be different than it is now.

 

[J Grant]

I don't know how you can divorce the fact that the banks have the leverage to outsource all their overhead into the appraiser's fee from the supply/demand where the lenders have more alternatives than you do.

If your market had the same supply/demand situation as the COW states don't you think your fees would be different than they are right now? AMC or no AMC

Again, you argue two different things. Banks are outsourcing their overhead into AMC's rather than paying for the overhead as any other business does. The problem for individual appraisers comes from the fact that the fee charged to a borrower is not enough to allow for a livable income when a good portion of it is sucked into the AMC. The fact remains that lender direct panels from banks pay a flat fee to appraisers, lo and behold usually C and R ! And one would imagine gets whatever overhead they need baked into consumer fee or loan profit and everything is fine when that happens.

The lower fee paid to appraiser is not passed along to consumers, it is part of a system that turned appraisals turned into a money maker for those who order them, rather than a service .
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The COW states are a lousy example and you know it. An under supply leading to excessive fees is a problem as well. As you are aware, lenders and AMC 's have siezed on the problems in COW states with under supply to enact changes, everything from waivers to alternate products to lowering entry requirements. A professional field should not have to get attrition down to such a severe under supply in order to correct this problem. The problem can be corrected over night with Cost plus, change of blended fee provision.

 

[George Hatch]

Whatever. He is the one saying that based on his teaching experience that there should be no bachelors degree requirement. I couldn't care less about his background. BS.

What I said is there's no evidence, and AFAICT The Appraisal Foundation didn't even look to see if a 4yr degree would improve appraiser competency or appraisal quality. There is a lot of evidence over many years of performance by appraisers w/o college that demonstrate that people with that level of education are quite capable of doing the job.

So if the AQB folded back in the alternate path that they had after 2008 that's still not a free pass to illiterates.

 

[George Hatch]

Again, you argue two different things. Banks are outsourcing their overhead into AMC's rather than paying for the overhead as any other business does. The problem for individual appraisers comes from the fact that the fee charged to a borrower is not enough to allow for a livable income when a good portion of it is sucked into the AMC. The fact remains that lender direct panels from banks pay a flat fee to appraisers, lo and behold usually C and R ! And one would imagine gets whatever overhead they need baked into consumer fee or loan profit and everything is fine when that happens.

The lower fee paid to appraiser is not passed along to consumers, it is part of a system that turned appraisals turned into a money maker for those who order them, rather than a service .
,
The COW states are a lousy example and you know it. An under supply leading to excessive fees is a problem as well. As you are aware, lenders and AMC 's have siezed on the problems in COW states with under supply to enact changes, everything from waivers to alternate products to lowering entry requirements. A professional field should not have to get attrition down to such a severe under supply in order to correct this problem. The problem can be corrected over night with Cost plus, change of blended fee provision.

TAF does appraisal standards and appraiser qualifications. They don't do banking regulation or AMC regulation. There are different apps for that and different parties to direct those complaints.

It is literally none of TAF's business what the AMCs and lenders get away with in their business practices. EXCEPT when they acting in the role of appraiser.

 

[Joe Flacco]

What I said is there's no evidence, and AFAICT The Appraisal Foundation didn't even look to see if a 4yr degree would improve appraiser competency or appraisal quality. There is a lot of evidence over many years of performance by appraisers w/o college that demonstrate that people with that level of education are quite capable of doing the job.

So if the AQB folded back in the alternate path that they had after 2008 that's still not a free pass to illiterates.

Then I ask you again, why have a college degree requirement for the CG license?

 

[timd354]

Whatever. He is the one saying that based on his teaching experience that there should be no bachelors degree requirement. I couldn't care less about his background. BS.

Just because someone has a different view of the matter than you does not make it BS, especially when that view is based upon many, many years of experience doing reviews and teaching CE. I personally also would have liked for the college degree requirement to be retained, but George's opinion on the matter is not only valid, but he has made some pretty well reasoned arguments in support of his view point. If you are under 40 and retired, then why the need for all of the bitterness and why do you even care if you are retired?

 

[Joe Flacco]

Just because someone has a different view of the matter than you does not make it BS, especially when that view is based upon many, many years of experience doing reviews and teaching CE. I personally also would have liked for the college degree requirement to be retained, but George's opinion on the matter is not only valid, but he has made some pretty well reasoned arguments in support of his view point. If you are under 40 and retired, then why the need for all of the bitterness and why do you even care if you are retired?

I'm not bitter. I spent the last 11 years working in appraisal and I care about it. I am angry that George thinks the only reason or case for raising qualifications is money. And now he is in this thread watering down the importance of local expertise. I don't know where he gets his kool aid.

 

[timd354]

None of us are hypocritical, about economic interests, and if anyone is, it is not me.
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If you really think that then you have a complete lack of self awareness.

 

[J Grant]

If you really think that then you have a complete lack of self awareness.

What a surprise, yet another personal attack ,this one about supposed lack of self awareness from TMD , I said he cant' stay on topic and debate an issue for more than a post or two if it means staying on topic. And sometimes not even that long.. .