Windows Tablets For Fieldwork

[Randall Garrett]

Noticed a Lenovo Helix review on Engadget. I thought it was mostly accurate and matches up with my findings, including the advice to wait for the Haswell refresh. I find that on both the Core i5 and Core i7 systems, we get better battery life than they report, but then their test includes some significant amount of looping video over Wi-Fi, so that may be the main difference. The reviewer briefly mentions that this is a business class device, yet they still put a bit too much emphasis on generic consumer stuff like that IMHO, and tend to judge their ratings in relation to other consumer devices. They mention items like NFC, VPro, etc. but then fail to explain the significance of these items for most business users and why their inclusion affects the price. Sometimes, these folks just think that an active pen is used for hitting little boxes and other UI elements, "paint" type things, etc. They still call the active pen a "stylus"...

Anyway, for those who are interested in this device, and/or want to learn more on what items we're likely to see improved upon in the next model, here is a link to the article.

http://www.engadget.com/2013/07/04/lenovo-thinkpad-helix-review/#continued

Since fellow appraiser member NCA also has a Helix, maybe he will give us his 2¢ on how well the article matches up with his findings...


Regards,


-Randall Garrett-
..Apex Software..

/end/

 

[kakarotto]

im waiting for the temash chips before i make the plunge, q3/q4 this year

 

[Randall Garrett]

Just wanted to let interested parties know that I'll be updating this thread fairly soon with new info, pictures, thoughts, etc. I am teaching another mobility class in late August, so I am gathering updated info on/about a few new devices. Most of the really interesting devices may not hit the shelves until after this class, so there will be tons of new pertinent info to follow in the next 60 - 90 days.

Lately, two events at which I usually teach classes have moved closer and closer, and this year they happen during the same week in nearly opposite ends of the country. Hence I have to pick one over the other. One event is purely CE and the other is an International organization show with the typical classes, vendors, etc. I will send regular folks to the big show and I will go the smaller, more intimate gig in Colorado. The class is on a Monday, so I'll arrive in Denver on Saturday and spend the rest of the weekend just driving through Colorado Springs, and westerly on Hwy. 24 in a meandering path toward Breckenridge. We used to have a place there and I like the drive, decompressing, seeing old friends, remembering ones we've lost, etc. I try to make it up to Boulder, Estes Park, etc., too.

If any readers are interested in perhaps having a meet-up in/near Breckenridge, CO toward the end of August, let me know and we'll try to coordinate something so you can see some of the gear and software I'll have with me. I always petition to be able to show prototype/sample stuff, but that rarely happens... But, I will have a collection of the newest and best (for appraisers IMHO) stuff with me.


Regards,


-Randall Garrett-
*Apex Software*

/end/

 

[Randall Garrett]

Well, shucks! I had a lot of new info to share this week, but I was advised to refrain from posting after I submitted the text and pictures for approval. A lot of what I had for you is still under information embargo, even though some others have already put their info up. (Some of it is actually accurate, LOL) I am told, however, that (most of) my information will be approved for public posting sometime this week. My personal pictures are NOT allowed, so I'll have to use "press materials." I expect I will be able to post links to others' pictures, though, without fear of any lash back :-/. The press shots are "OK" but they are more "glamor" shots and don't tell the whole story - I think most folks here appreciate "in the hand" shots where I can show how they perform in conditions close to what most appraisers experience on a daily basis...

Look for something from me this week. Note that I am using engineering samples, not shipping product, so my final review/thoughts in detail will not be posted until I get one the ones I have personally ordered and use it in the field.

Regards,


-Randall Garrett-
*Apex Software*

/end/

 

[NC Appraising]

Noticed a Lenovo Helix review on Engadget. I thought it was mostly accurate and matches up with my findings, including the advice to wait for the Haswell refresh. I find that on both the Core i5 and Core i7 systems, we get better battery life than they report, but then their test includes some significant amount of looping video over Wi-Fi, so that may be the main difference. The reviewer briefly mentions that this is a business class device, yet they still put a bit too much emphasis on generic consumer stuff like that IMHO, and tend to judge their ratings in relation to other consumer devices. They mention items like NFC, VPro, etc. but then fail to explain the significance of these items for most business users and why their inclusion affects the price. Sometimes, these folks just think that an active pen is used for hitting little boxes and other UI elements, "paint" type things, etc. They still call the active pen a "stylus"...

Anyway, for those who are interested in this device, and/or want to learn more on what items we're likely to see improved upon in the next model, here is a link to the article.

[url]http://www.engadget.com/2013/07/04/lenovo-thinkpad-helix-review/#continued[/URL]

Since fellow appraiser member NCA also has a Helix, maybe he will give us his 2¢ on how well the article matches up with his findings...


Regards,


-Randall Garrett-
..Apex Software..

/end/

The review is pretty accurate.

I'm not a tech guy and RG is over my head when it comes to tech. That being said, I like the Helix, and I knew that is was overkill for what I was doing.

Also, after I purchased the Helix, my software provider updated their mobile product, which is still not up to par.


I would not purchase the Helix now, until the new chips are out and IF they put a widescreen camera and a flash on the camera. Now, if my appraisal software would "dumb down" and improve the photo taking process.


This is where RG can help. There are many windows 8 tablets on the market that runs the fill win 8 (not the RT).

Most use those atom processors. So for what we are doing, and taking the price into consideration, would the atom be fast enough?

For most, all we do is the improvements section, sketch and pics.

 

[Randall Garrett]

NCA,

Without getting geeky, essentially the current Atom chips (Clover Trail) you are likely referring to are a bit "hamstrung" in that they:

• are limited to 2 GB of RAM,
• address only up to 1366 x 768 screens,
• have a slow/limited graphics subsystem,
• and have a (relatively) slow type of "hard drive."

The upcoming "Bay Trail" chips are improved in that they:

• allow up to 4 GB of RAM,
• allow higher resolution screens (1080p and beyond),
• basically "inherit" the Core i5/i7 graphics subsystem,
• and allow for a faster storage medium protocol

All of these improvements add up to a substantial increase in the "seat of the pants" feel of existing software. It is no secret that most appraisal programs that folks found to feel sluggish have not (yet?) been optimized for lower power systems, but I would expect that to change somewhat as time passes - perhaps faster once more people start using them and thus demand grows. It is sort of a "chicken and egg" thing - software shops have to pay attention to the top items first and generally, most shops need to address the largest number of paying customers first.

That said, in my own experience (using sample "prototype" hardware, not fully baked drivers and software, etc.) using a near future BayTrail device will feel like something between a fast Core i3 and a medium speed Core i5 Ivy Bridge (the series your i7 is from) device, but be in the thin, light and less expensive hardware category similar to the Lenovo ThinkPad Tablet 2 that I have covered in several posts. Pricing should start off about the same, perhaps even lower.

IF you ("one") are pushing the hardware beyond the scope of a true thin & light "companion) device - trying to make a $500 - $700 tablet performs like your desktop of yore - then you should not be surprised when it hits a brick wall sooner than you might like. Folks with heavier duty needs/desires will be better served by the devices with the new "Haswell" Core i5/i7 chips. Those chips bring just slightly better performance than last year's chips but something like a 50% efficiency gain. Remember that the screen itself is a huge power drain, so that new chip efficiency generally translates out to about a 25% - 30% increase in battery life, perhaps better in regular
pure work" scenarios vs. the typical battery life tests so popular with the non-business type reviewers (testing at 50% - 65% screen brightness, but running Wi-Fi streaming videos until it shuts down, etc.) Since most appraisers work more outside than the typical consumer-focused blogger/reviewer, their power draw profile can be very different - hence the seeming disparity in what some sites claim for battery life and what I am finding.

The good news is, though, that this next generation of devices are almost universally far superior than what we had to choose from 6 - 12 months ago This is what I am finding and it matches up just as I had expected based on the technology used. In other words, it is not marketing hype, but perfectly predictable results based on the specs, the "science." The variable yet to come into focus is the actual mix of components and implementation of same in the actual shipping devices. Working with specs, engineering samples, beta software & drivers, etc. is one thing, but regular buyers have to deal with whatever a manufacturer actually ships into the retail channel. This is why I routinely suggest that folks refrain from being the first to pre-order a newly announced device. I am going to get the top devices anyway - it's something I do... I recommend that folks resist the urge to jump onto the devices announced at (say) the current and near future shows and let's just see how they actually perform vs. believe their marketing departments and/or some dweeb blogger who can't even spell "appraisal", much less know what you have to deal with in your daily life. In other words, a healthy dose of cynicism is warranted. Aren't we appraisers pretty much "hardwired" that way, anyway? ;-) I'm not exactly suggesting, in this regard, that folks here wander much outside their true nature anyway, LOL. I am (and have been), however, suggesting that they take a little bit of a "walk on the wild side" and actually purchase better equipment vs. the cheap crap they usually buy and then ***** when it doesn't perform like they imagined it would. My observation is that spending 10% - 20% more than "el cheapo" costs and applying it in the right areas will result in higher profitability. Stuff that lasts, stuff that lets them do their jobs with less fuss, etc. Appraisers rant about the amount of time their job duties eat up, then ignore a lot of the time spent futzing with stuff that underperforms and deal with all the time/hassles but still defend their low purchase price. Baffling... but predictable, LOL.

Now I know that you don't seem to fall into that last category. I still think, however, that you overspent (Core i7 instead of Core i5, etc.) Everyone is, of course, welcome to do as they see fit and only each person knows their own needs/situation the best. I am merely suggesting that folks understand the basics and be honest with themselves about what they need to do the job, be less susceptible to "the shiny object syndrome" and concentrate on "Value vs. Cost."

Just trying to help, and am not trying to be caustic, nor "holier than thou" - I suffer mightily from the shiny object thing ;-) but at least I know it, ha ha.


Regards,


-Randall Garrett-
..Apex Software..


/end/

 

[Randall Garrett]

Bay Trail info finally becoming public

Just a tidbit for those who are following this stuff.

Today, the information embargo on the Intel Bay Trail CPU's was lifted. Hence, we're seeing some published reports on these chips which I've been mentioning for a few months. The information on the retail devices with these chips in them is still under NDA (and subject to change), so I am unable to comment on the specifics there. Still, the info on the chips is a major factor is why I've been recommending for those who could, to wait just a little longer. I believe these chips represent a huge step forward in what sort of devices will be popular with a large portion of the appraisal community. Anyway, there are several reports/reviews out today so I thought I would share a couple with you.


The "quick read, lighter" version is found here:
http://www.engadget.com/2013/09/11/intel-announces-new-bay-trail/

For more in-depth info (perhaps a little geeky, but good stuff for those who want more specifics) is found here:
http://www.anandtech.com/show/7314/intel-baytrail-preview-intel-atom-z3770-tested

FWIW, the author of the second article is a truly knowledgeable tech person, not some lightweight. I believe he has been using the very same "reference" device (Intel) that I have been exposed to. Note that these are still early reference units, not finished and tuned retail pieces. There will undoubtedly be tweaks and mods to both peripheral components and OS tweaks by the time the retail devices ship. Anand could have done a better job IMHO by giving more comparisons between Clover Trail and Bay Trail vs. comparing more Haswell and Ivy Bridge specs. Still, this is good info and falls in line with what I am finding at this stage of the game.

Hope this helps!


-Randall Garrett-
..Apex Software..

/end/

 

[kakarotto]

still x86 though, which in the day and age, why? though 2014 is supposed to bring out the x64 chips. in either case, every iteration of atom has been a load of fail. i'm still waiting for amd temash, which is believe the radeon graphics are still going to be superior to intel's iris

 

[Randall Garrett]

OK, fine - enjoy the wait.
I am not playing the fanboy game. I am merely reporting what I know, what I have experienced. I am not anti-AMD - I am agnostic in that regard. I've just not actually SEEN AMD deliver in a meaningful way lately, and I doubt that they will. If this turns out to be incorrect, I will be happy - more choices for appraisers is better, IMHO.


-Randall Garrett-
*Apex Software*

/end/

 

[kakarotto]

OK, fine - enjoy the wait.
I am not playing the fanboy game. I am merely reporting what I know, what I have experienced. I am not anti-AMD - I am agnostic in that regard. I've just not actually SEEN AMD deliver in a meaningful way lately, and I doubt that they will. If this turns out to be incorrect, I will be happy - more choices for appraisers is better, IMHO.


-Randall Garrett-
*Apex Software*

/end/

i would rather wait for the bay trail 64 chips and see how they line up to amd's temash chips (which early testing seems to show that they outperform the baytrails including having a docked "turbo" mode). i'm not being the fan boy, but why not wait a few months to see how amd performs? you cannot sit there and say that every iteration of atom that has come out thus far has been a load of fail. i mean c'mon, atom single handedly killed the netbook market. the sony playstation 4's and the microsoft xbox one's are both going to be running amd's apu's. most people don't buy tablets every year, and i would think that one wouldn't want to regret the performance output from a purchase that could have been held off by a couple months. that being said, 8" dell venue with a $199 price point does seem palatable, especially compared to the new nexus 7. that being said, temash is going to be x64 right out of the gate, meaning it can run win 8 pro


i would also like to point out that the qualcomm chips that everyone loves for their devices began as a division at amd, which was sold to qualcomm. so i think it's pretty safe to say that amd knows a thing or two about mobile chips. (adreno is based on radeon tech)