Windows Tablets For Fieldwork

[Randall Garrett]

NS is correct on a number of items. The primary issue he mentions on his tablet and phone is due to lack of specialized software. The hardware and OS are fine. JS43 just likes to interject the Mac Angie from time to time. The device is fine but it is not a tablet, touch or pen, whereas the Sammy is. I happen to prefer the lighter weight Bay Trail models for MY use case scenarios, but some want a more traditional CPU type device and I think the device listed is a decent value IF it fits YOUR use case scenario. I happen to think that the Surface Pro devices, while being fine for many, do not represent the best fit for most residential appraisers.

As for the Av6 release, it IS actually out and being used, just not here in the US, yet. Again, the primary reason is due to the lack of corresponding Win8 Fee (vs. Mass) Appraisal software here. Hence, we have been focused on adding specialized and custom features and capabilities tailored for other industries and geographic regions. From my viewpoint, we could release it almost immediately IF any of the US appraisal software companies were to release a Win8 product. I suppose it might actually take a month in "calendar days" since we'd need to come to a stopping point in other endeavors and wrap up a published build, but that is essentially "immediately" in developer terms ;-). That said, I am told that we are to release it anyway sometime early this summer since it is compliant for both Windows 7 and Windows 8.x. There is a corresponding "Metro" product (MS 8) waiting in the wings for interested Fee Appraisers. The current focus on that product has men Mass Appraisal and other similar "profiles" but it naturally fits well for Fee Appraisers.

Hopefully, we can now return to discussing Windows 8.x tablet hardware


-Randall Garrett-
+Apex Software+

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[Bill S]

I spent a lot of time searching for the perfect tablet for business. Now that I have it, I don't really use it for business at all. Still fun to have but I should have given this more thought.

 

[Non Sequitur]

I spent a lot of time searching for the perfect tablet for business. Now that I have it, I don't really use it for business at all. Still fun to have but I should have given this more thought.

I feel the same way. The Surface Pro is great, it runs Netflix and the Nook apps like a boss. I just couldn't get used to running full versions of appraisal software in the field. Having the whole form on the screen is distracting and hard to navigate. With that said I still bring it with me to run IE in the field, it's much easier to research the MLS and other websites with IE than Safari. So not a total waste of $1,200 but close to it.

Once more software is released the Win 8 tablets will take off.

 

[JSmith43]

Hopefully, we can now return to discussing Windows 8.x tablet hardware

Can the Surface Pro be downgraded to W7? I suppose the touch screen support might be an issue.

Other than my fanboi jab to NS, which was totally only for sport, I was most interested in pointing out a decent solution for someone that wants to run their forms & sketching software in the field, could do so & avoid the W8 & touch screen scene.

In 1991-92, I had a Powerbook 100 (a Mac Notebook). It only weighed 5 pounds! The screen was 9". At the time, Bradford was supporting MacAppraiser software, which the Powerbook 100 ran nicely. I still use the integrated sketcher-why learn something new?

As an experiment, I tried filling out the forms & doing the sketch at vacant homes. It became apparent to me that it was easier to take good notes & do that in a comfortable chair while staring at a 19" CRT, using a Kensington Trackball device & foot switch for an input device. The foot switch relieved finger stress-foot was a mouse click). Current desktop displays are much better than 1992 tech, so all the better to do it at home.

Every now & then I take a Macbook Pro along to an inspection, mostly for MLS access via a portable cellular connection. If I want to see if a complex drawing closes, that is pretty easy to do in the car before I go. I usually take the laptop if the drive is unusually long or cross traffic from home base.

If a field device could project a holographic display that was easily readable, that would be a breakthrough moment for me

Google glasses. I wonder if it is too late to be the first appraiser to perform an inspection recording what they see with Google Glasses? Would it then be OK to use "runners" if they wore Google Glasses & the appraiser gave them voice commands-"look left?" How about a Google Glass appraisal application?

 

[JSmith43]

I read an article recently explaining why Micrrosoft decided to port Office to IOS before Android, even though Apple now bundles IWork with new devices-free.

Apparently, it is a PITA for developers to make money on Android since it is fragmented relative to IOS & the development tools for IOS are superior.

http://appleinsider.com/articles/14/03/29/why-did-microsoft-port-office-to-apples-ios-ipad-before-android

I wonder if software developers consider it easier to write apps (& make money) for Surface Pro than, say, Android?

Will these devices thrive or become orphans or somewhere in between? Like NS suggested, I think software is the major consideration.

 

[Bill S]

It's too bad. The Surface is pretty boss. I picked up a refurb on ebay for $170 and will be ditching my laptop. And my laptop is fairly high end but I only used it for Office and surfing the internet. Plus I still have a 4.5ghz oc'ed Haswell desktop. The Surface will work great for me on the road, too. Can look up MLS data and sort through spreadsheets for comps (thanks, rural America) with ease.

"Boss", I love that word. Haven't heard or used it since the 70's but glad to see it back in rotation.

 

[Randall Garrett]

Fwiw.

Head's up...

Look for 8.9" tablets to become suddenly more popular than (say) 10.1" examples sometime this spring/summer. There will still be those use case scenarios where smaller (say, 8") tablets hit your particular hot buttons and 10"+ sizes for more screen real estate (and our aging eyes), but the moves afoot make it so manufacturers will be able to produce tablets with screens smaller than 9" to be more affordable. Manufacturers may go one of two ways with this - relegate the 8.9" and smaller tablets to be "el cheapo's" and only put their best components in 9" and larger devices, or do what's best: give us choices where they use the manufacturing savings to create better devices at better price points. Given past performance, I suspect there will be a mix with only a few examples of the latter. As usual, I expect the devices which best fit our use case scenarios best will come from folks who offer "business class" devices (like Lenovo, Dell, Fujitsu etc.) and the others will be from the others and flooded to the big box stores. I'll continue to evaluate the various devices and give you my thoughts on what represents the best bang for the buck.

More as things develop. (On that note, I do not expect to be able to put up my thoughts on my top two devices - Q584 and EP1000) until maybe mid-April. Again, an important driver/OS update waiting in the wings is holding this back. I do not have concrete information to share on that important update today. I am told I should know something solid by week's end, but as usual, I will wait until I have it in-hand myself.)


-Randall Garrett-
..Apex Software..

/end/

 

[Randall Garrett]

FYI, the HP ProPad 610 G1 is finally officially "available" - we'll see about actual shipping dates. The PP 610 is essentially a toned-down version of the excellent EP 1000. Like the EP 1000, it uses the same accessories as last year's EP 900. As you may recall, I found the EP 900 to be a good tablet overall, but cautioned folks to wait for the next version since the first gen device was "neutered" by early choices on CPU, RAM, etc. Additionally, while the touch screen was good, the selections HP made for the active pen portion were... ummm... questionable and they - well, they turned out to be bad. For some unexplained reason, HP sometimes goes with new component technologies even in their Elite (Business grade) line. For the EP 900, HP went with an Atmel digitizer panel/pen combo vs. the tried and proven Wacom solution.. On paper, it looked like a good move, but they had trouble actually delivering the pen and when they did, it... was flakey. We were involved with a large (foreign) roll-out that used the EP 900 and all their early pens were good - it wasn't until they began rolling out in bulk that something went amiss. The pens were just bad, although the touch panel worked great. Fortunately, the customer was able to use the EP 900's just fine as their main interface was touch and we were able to tweak our sketcher to be more touch friendly. Anyway, fast forward to today...

The EP 1000 G2 features a much improved touch and pen component. The PP 600 is, essentially, the exact same device as the EP 1000, but without the active pen layer, and the lower price reflects the savings on component costs. (The "casing" is a little different, too) The retail price of the PP 600 starts in the $530 range where the EP 1000 starts in the $740 range. As usual, you can expect "street" pricing to be a little lower than retail unless you just have to get a unit before the supply chain is filled. That said, these are Business Class devices with slightly higher pricing (build quality, ruggedness, available factory drop protection warranties, etc.) and discounts are not typically as deep as they are with the lesser consumer products. At 1.4 lbs, the PP 600 is 0.1 lbs lighter and the dimensions are (essentially) the same so that accessories can be shared. Both tablets are available with 2 GB or 4 GB or RAM, and we recommend the 4 GB models unless your software provider has optimized their software for mobile use.

I have seen and used both the PP 610 and EP 1000, though neither of my retail units have arrived. There is a delay in the EP 1000 I chose as my personal unit (128 GB storage and 4G option) and I honestly don't know when my PP 610 will arrive. I am travelling out of the country for a mobile presentation and training in early May and had hoped to take the latest examples with me, but I fear they will not arrive in time. Nevertheless, I believe I will be allowed to photograph my recommended devices together and post them here before I leave on this trip. I don't know about posting my thoughts on real world field use performance(s) since some of my devices are not actual retail units, but the main items of size, weight, screen quality, etc. are fair game IMHO. After using so many different devices with near-similar base components, I have a good feel for the expected performance of the retail units. Still, I'd like to actually have full retail units in hand before going into detail. Suffice it to say that these devices, with their newer chipsets, higher resolution and additional RAM make for a very compelling mobile companion product line and can even handle some multi-tasking as long as you don't expect them to outpace your monster desktop or high-end laptop. Their performance is much, much better than last years' models and we've finally reached a state where they are "good enough."

Anyway, here's a link to the data sheet for:
PP 610 -

http://h10010.www1.hp.com/wwpc/pscmisc/vac/us/product_pdfs/HP_Pro_Tablet_610_G1_DS.pdf
​

EP 1000 -

http://h10010.www1.hp.com/wwpc/pscm...MS_HP_ElitePad_1000_Data_Sheet_02_07_2014.pdf​

Hope this helps for now. I'll have some info on the last known competitor that I know of within a week to 10 days, to round out my short list to 4 or 5 basic units and the recommended model/upgrade variations. I am preparing a "matrix" for our training and presentation portion, and if I am allowed to share that, perhaps I can post it here.


-Randall Garrett-
..Apex Software..

/end/

 

[Randall Garrett]

Just a quick update to share a couple of pictures of the "last known competitor" I mentioned toward the bottom of my previous post. The device is the long awaited Lenovo ThinkPad Tablet 10 - the replacement for the very popular (and excellent for the day) ThinkPad Tablet 2. I cannot comment too much on this tablet (yet) but now that it has been formally advertised on official non-US Lenovo sites, I can name it and give you general thoughts. Like the previous model, it is quite thin and light for such a powerful Tablet with touch and Wacom active pen. They improved the screen from the less desirable 16:9 @ 1366 x 768 to the preferred 16:10 aspect ratio at 1920 x 1200. The previous device had a nice, vibrant screen and while the new screen is more dense, it turns out to be even brighter & punchier. The device will ship initially with 2 GB of RAM and running Windows 8.1 Update 1, 32-bit. They are officially going to release a model with 4 GB of RAM running the 64-bit version of Windows 8.1 Update 1. I don't have a release date for either model, but my sources say mid-may for the 32-bit edition. As mentioned before, one of the big hold-ups in releasing a model that supports 4 GB of RAM (some of the earlier devices had chipsets that could support 4 GB) is a MS/Intel issue with connected standby on 64-bit. My HP EP 1000 has the same basic specs in that regard and I have not witnessed a problem, so I suspect it won't be long before the other major players are able to ship the configurations I recommend for most appraisers. I am attaching two low-resolution pictures showing two of the announced keyboard options. The tablet shown is not MY sample unit and I cannot get too deep into specifics yet - I don't feel good about posting my sample without clearance. The first is a "flip cover" and the other is more akin to a real keyboard. The feel on the former is not unlike the Dell & MS "slim" keyboards (sort of in-between) and the other is also in-between the Dell and MS "Type" keyboards. Being a ThinkPad, I find the latter to be the better for moderate-heavy typing, but the "soft/slim" model works surprisingly well (as do Dell's and MS's.) Note that one thing that the new Lenovo omitted from the base tablet is a built-in "silo" so the Wacom pen is relegated to an elastic "loop" on the soft "cover" and a true "silo" on the more substantial keyboard. I had hoped to be able to do a true comparison of shipping units but the retail units are not shipping yet, so that will have to wait just a little longer. What I can say, though, is that this looks to be a viable contender. Maybe I can go into more detail and side-by-side stuff when I get back from the mobile training class I am doing in early May. In the interim, feel free to ask any pertinent questions and I will answer as best I can. If you think the questions might be of interest to others, please post them here vs. PM - my box here gets full quickly. I don't mind PMs, its just that most of the time, the items discussed are likely interesting to others...

Hope this helps for now.


-Randall Garrett-
..Apex Software..

/end/

 

[Randall Garrett]

Just a quick update.

I'm posting a picture I took of the primary devices I am taking and showing as example on my trip. I'm actually taking a few more, but these are the primary & recommended devices for the customer we are going to see for some training and mobility discussions with a wider group.

The device in the middle, with the keyboard dock, is the HP ElitePad 1000. The device to the left of it is the older HP EP 900 in a regular "flip" case. The white device to the right of the EP 1000 is the Fujitsu Q584. The two "outside" devices had to be slightly obscured at this time as I can't discuss them publicly (our meetings are private, and thus not under this restriction.) The 8" device is the Dell Venue 8 Pro, which I am taking to demonstrate "form factor" items. I would be taking the Dell Venue 11 Pro, but it was not available when I was packing :-\

The EP 900 & EP 1000 are visually virtually identical to the untrained eye - it's not until you turn them both on and use them that most people can tell the difference. (the different cases make the EP 1000 look much larger, but it is not!) The EP 900 has the older "Clover Trail" CPU with 2 GB of RAM and is running a 32-bit build of Windows 8.1, update 1 (herein improperly "8.1-1") where the EP 1000 has the newest Bay Trail CPU which supports (and has) 4 GB of RAM running on a 64-bit build of 8.1-1. The Q584 has the better CPU and 4 GB of RAM as well, but is running a 32-bit build of 8.1-1, so it only "sees" just under 3 GB of RAM at this time. I'm taking both HP's so folks can compare side-by-side examples of essentially the same device (mfg., form factor etc.) The Lenovo comes with the new CPU and is available with either 2 GB or 4 GB and 32/64-bit, according to the chipset ordered. Dell has announced a V11P with the new chipset but only the 2GB 32-bit version is currently listed. I do not have this device and will not get it until a 4 GB/64-bit version is available.

I chose these devices because I believe they are the best fit for this customer (and perhaps many of you, depending on your needs.) This customer has concerns over the devices recommended by another vendor due to their wet weather environment, plus the regular trials of outdoor use (drops, spills, grime, etc.) I like showing the Q584 because I can demo it by submerging it in a fish tank while running - that should answer the "hard rain" question pretty quickly, LOL. Actually, I believe that the HP, Dell and/or Lenovo would be just fine, too, but the Fujitsu is just fun to demonstrate ;-) All of these 10+" devices are 1.5 lbs. or less, have keyboard dock options, "flip" and folio cases, active pen options, desktop docks, etc. Plus, they all have factory options for accidental drop/damage coverage policies (typically about $50 - $75 for 1 year, with multi-year options as well.)

I'll try to shoot some more shots in outdoor "beachy" (sand, grime) and hot/humid conditions sometime next week, after I am finished with the training classes and mobile discussions with the wider group. I may not be able to upload them until toward the end of next week or the weekend, depending on the agenda & amount of free time I have available.


Hope this helps for now!


-Randall Garrett-
+Apex Software+

PS - I stand corrected on something I wrote in my 04/16 post regarding the PP 610. Turns out, the PP 610 does support active pen and only the most basic (!) cases are interchangeable. I am told that the choices for accessories for the PP 610 are much more limited. I should not have commented on the device until I had more direct, hands-on experience with it vs. just a quick "fondling", skimming a press release for tech details, etc! I was honestly more interested in the EP 1000 at the private event and when I heard that a pen was not available for it (just missing ATM?), I unfairly brushed it aside. The device was still exciting enough for me to have ordered one and once it comes in, I'll pay more attention to it and will comment on how well it stacks up against the others which I already have more experience with.

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