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Windows Tablets For Fieldwork

Is it possible to run the entire Total 2013 program with a Windows Surface tablet?
 
hsh,

Of course, your best source for info about hardware for a particular software app - especially appraisal software - would be the people who make the software, so I would make sure to ask them. That said, you'll need to use something with an Intel CPU that runs "regular Windows", not Windows RT. Hence, that means a Surface Pro device, not the older "Surface RT" nor the newer "Surface 2."

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kakarotto,

I'm sure you've noticed that the keyboard dock on your T100 seems pretty heavy for what it is - it weighs about the same as the tablet portion and doesn't have an extra battery, HDD or anything else other than a port or two :-\ Asus makes another keyboard which has a 500 GB HDD in it, but I've yet to see it available here in the USA, though I must admit that I quit looking several weeks ago. Anyway, the T100 models we own have a metal plate in the keyboard dock "shell" and FWIW, it can be removed. I have experimented a little with my T100 and found that with very little effort, I was able to remove it at doing so does make the combo feel considerably lighter (duh!) at the expense of it being my "tippy." YMMV...

Knowing you to be a savvy person and likely not adverse to some modding (?), if you happen to run across some mods for your T100, would you please share them with us here? Like I said, I'm not spending much time with my T100 these days and I think the device fits into a nice sweet spot for lots of folks here, so I think that you might be the best source of info on this device going forward. TIA for any helpful info you can pass along!

FWIW, with devices I genuinely like and would consider carrying on a regular basis, I usually take a few minutes to apply the excellent Skinomi TechSkin™ products to applicable devices - like most Asus products, and the T100 is no exception, especially due to the glossy finish on this particular device. I think it looks cheap and is an absolute fingerprint magnet - and potentially more slippery. I have usually used their Carbon Fiber (yep, real carbon fiber!) series, but for my T100, I chose the Brushed Steel variant. This particular installation took me about 12 minutes, but I've done them before and I'd guess it would be closer to 15 - 20 for a first-timer, depending on how obsessive one was with "perfect alignment." Anyway, here are links to the product showing color/finishes available. I usually order via Amazon since the price is usually a dollar or two cheaper and it is more convenient for me.

Skinomi choices for T100: http://www.skinomi.com/astrbot1.html

Amazon link for the one I purchased: http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00GSXF9AO/?tag=realestatappraat

I recommend this product - looks good (IMHO), works well for grip and offers good protection for scratches, etc.


Hope this helps!


-Randall Garrett-
..Apex Software..

/end/
 

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It's too bad. The Surface is pretty boss. I picked up a refurb on ebay for $170 and will be ditching my laptop. And my laptop is fairly high end but I only used it for Office and surfing the internet. Plus I still have a 4.5ghz oc'ed Haswell desktop. The Surface will work great for me on the road, too. Can look up MLS data and sort through spreadsheets for comps (thanks, rural America) with ease.
 
FWIW, I noted a couple of deals on popular units today.

For those looking for a good deal on the Surface Pro, it is on sale for $499. This is the 1sy generation device with Ivy Bridge CPU (not Haswell.) Basically, this means very similar performance to the current generation unit, but about 1.5 hour shorter battery life. All the new keyboard covers work on it.

The other unit on sale is the Dell Venue 8 Pro, which I have covered previously and find to be an excellent unit for the money.

Here are the notes I sent myself:

Surface Pro – 10.6" Tablet, Core i5, 4 GB RAM, 128 GB SSD, Active Pen and Touch –

Dell Venue 8 Pro – 8" Tablet, Intel 3740D, 2 GB RAM, Active Pen and Touch (Pen is optional)
32 GB storage model

64 GB storage model

Hope this helps!


-Randall Garrett-
..Apex Software..

/end/
 
Pretty accurate mini-review on the Dell V11P

FWIW, I noted a short mini-review (with pix) on the Dell Venue 11 pro which mostly matches up with what I found using mine. Summarily, for many appraisers the V11P may be a better bang for the buck than the MS Surface Pro 2. You can get it with a variety of CPU choices* and in almost every possible configuration ends up costing less than a MS Surface Pro 2.

The reviewer (who is well known to me and usually pretty much spot on with regard to calling things fairly) says he will have more info on the device after a few days of use, but this mini-review lists out the main items that most would be concerned with.

One comment that I disagree with is his comment on screen brightness. The V11P is technically brighter, but the screen treatments are different - both are glossy :-( but the MS Surface Pro and Surface Pro 2 have superior "direct bonding" which makes them a little more legible for many in brighter/sunny environments. Not a LOT different, just some, so if you are not in a super bright environment, this minor difference may not be important to you. As mentioned many times before, applying a Dayvue screen protector is recommended regardless... See my outdoor pictures here:

I believe most of you would appreciate the removable battery feature and I am surprised that more people don't write more on this. Maybe folks have just come to accept that modern devices no longer have the ability to swap or add extra capacity batteries...

The MS Surface Pro 2 has a superior inking capability due to the superior Wacom (vs. Synaptics) but my guess is that most of you may be using touch more and active pen less (?) Also, there have been issues reported with the Dell active Styluses with some users. I had no problem with any of mine but some have, and a new Stylus is in the works. Some "beta" folk have a revision or two but we can't discuss yet, though others have revealed that it is much improved :-) The Dell active stylus is a $39 optional purchase.

* The reviewer notes that the Surface Pro 2 is available with an Intel Core i5 "Haswell" CPU. His review V11P has the 3770 "Bay Trail" configuration (which I also had) and he notes that the Core i3 and Core i5 units are currently unavailable. I tested (but did not own) both the Core i3 and Core i5 variants. FWIW, the Core i5 version is the better buy than the Core i3, but I think for MOST folks using a V11P as a "companion" device (vs. desktop replacement), the Bay Trail option is the way to go...

Article link: http://winsupersite.com/mobile-devices/dell-venue-11-pro-first-impressions-and-photos

Hope this is of interest. Let me know if you have any specific questions.


-Randall Garrett-
..Apex Software..

/end/
 
My UK guy tells me that the newly announced HP ElitePad 1000 seems to be the "real deal" in the light weight "companion device" category and is likely to be a worthy upgrade to the neutered ElitePad 900. I actually like(d) the ElitePad 900 with the exception of the crappy Atmel digitizer pen/layer. As an Enterprise class device, it had a lot going for it and some larger customers use it extensively today (as a touch device.)

The EP1000 finally moves to the new BayTrail CPUs and they are reporting Win 8.x-64 will ship on the device (Pro is an option) in March. Price is quoted at just a little less than the Fujitsu Q584 which is the benchmark today in this class IMHO. They also announced the ProPad 600 which looks to fall in between consumer and Enterprise, possibly targeted as an affordable business class device with lower specs. I am told that an early EP1000 will be in my sweaty palms in 2 weeks, accompanied by the requisite NDA, but I should be able to comment on relative items with regard to the Q584. "On paper", the EP1000 looks to hit a sweet spot and I think it was smart of HP to design it to be able to use the various accessories that are available for the EP900 - shell, docks, extended battery, etc. Assuming a similar build quality to the EP900 (which was great), the major question is whether or not the "G2" pen and digitizer layer is the major improvement pen aficionado's require.

The Fujitsu uses a true Wacom digitizer and pen, so it is pretty much a "known" quantity in that regard, The Q584 is a little over the top with its 2560 x 1600 resolution where the EP1000 has 1920 x 1200 which I think will actually free up some GPU and aid battery life (higher resolution screens require more energy to produce the same apparent brightness.) The Q584 is a semi-rugged tablet which I can attest is waterproof, but the HP should work just fine in the elements - like driving rain, and survive most drops, etc. Not sure if I can dunk it under water or not, and I won't be trying this with the sample unit ;-) but I don't think "dunk-ability" rates high with most appraisers. The EP900 had a semi-matte screen, which I prefer over glossy, but I don't know how the EP1000 will compare until I get it. I am told I can share pictures, just not benchmarks. I take that to mean that I can do "seat of the pants" and "feels like" comments, though ;-)

I will update this thread once I have both devices so I can do a side-by-side. If it performs like the Q584, we may finally be seeing real shipping product that hits the mark on mobile performance many of you are looking for.

[Edit] - OK, there is now a quick video up on YouTube. The item mentioned that I might "argue" with Steve is that he failed to explain that the Fujitsu Q584 is actually the first Baytrail device of this type to ship with 4 GB of RAM already installed, and that the "big deal" with the HP is that they are reportedly shipping it with Win 8.x-64 where the other Baytrail devices ship with the 32-bit version (due to an issue involving a bug with Connected Standby which is supposed to be corrected in a few weeks.) IF they actually ship it with the 64-bit version, that should mean we can start getting Q584's with 64-bit factory images :-) As I mentioned in earlier posts, the new Baytrail devices in this class are a noticeable step up in performance from the more pedestrian consumer type tablets - things you can actually feel when running your bloated appraisal apps. The Q584 eats up the consumer devices with respect to performance, durability, screen, etc., but given the current state of appraisal apps, the bulk of the performance gain comes from the extra RAM the Q584 has, not so much the CPU speed bump. That said, the Q584 can only really address 3 of the 4 GB it has under typical conditions due to the 32-bit OS installed, so once we get the 64-bit versions, we can get to an additional 1 GB of RAM just sitting there, waiting. (Geeks will note that the extra 1 GB is not actually "wasted" - it IS being used, just not directly, by normal apps.) Anyway, here is a link to the video Steve posted.

HP Elitepad 1000 2G Baytrail 2014 Model Hands On with Chippy - YouTube


-Randall Garrett-
..Apex Software..

/end/
 

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Randall,

Thanks for your continued interest in this thread and for sharing all of your experience/knowledge.

Having used a current generation iPad for some of the field work, and finding that experience a little lukewarm, one of the notions that I've had is that I'd really like to be able to use a stylus, preferably a Wacom, for note taking and sketching. But it seems as though that I might be in the minority on that score, for the bulk of the devices do not have a stylus, or a robust stylus. Even the new Elitepad 1000 is noted to have a stylus that might not be great for detail or handwriting on a scale I'd like.

So, can you shed a little light on that topic. Specifically as an example, is using Apex in the field just as easy without a stylus? Perhaps easier? Or is it more of a personal preference issue?

Thanks
 
Thanks for the kind words, Rob. I'm happy to help where I can :-)

The iPad is a fine device and has advanced what most folks think of as a tablet today. It was not intended to be a solution for every use and it is a credit to the developer community that they have been able to extend the boundaries of what can be done with it. That said, I believe there are better devices available for folks in the appraisal/inspection field. The main barrier for more widespread adoption of these other devices lays at the feet of the appraisal software companies and that won't likely change until more end users start asking for software for these devices. It's a sort of "chicken and egg" situation that is understandable, so I'm not throwing stones here, just sort of lamenting...

Your desire to use a pen-enabled device is in the minority within the Fee Appraisal business here in the US, but is right in line with how folks who do similar things in other industries and other parts of the world operate efficiently today. Of course, their "ecosystem" developed a little differently and here in North America, you have to work with what is available/applicable for YOU, not elsewhere...

One of the things that has held back the wider adoption of the sort of device you describe are the factors of size/weight, battery life and cost. What we're seeing today is, fortunately, an improvement in all those categories :-) I am hopeful that we'll see some worthwhile movement this very year with respect to devices which fit the bill for fee appraisers here.

The HP EP1000 that you mention looks to be a contender for the "worthy device" status, but we won't really know for a few weeks. My sample device shows to be in Memphis ATM and I am hopeful it'll be here tomorrow so I can spend some quiet time with it this weekend. With my luck, it'll not arrive until Monday, which delays things and is frustrating as I am advised I can only keep it for 3 days :-(. I am further told that my personal retail order should arrive the 2nd week in March, but those type of promises are rarely accurate. Hence, I believe it'll not be until a little later in March before I can comment on a real live retail device (vs. engineering/review sample) and evaluate its performance in real world appraisal-type scenarios, as well as compare it to the current champ, the Q584. I have high hopes for the EP 1000 and I will be paying particular attention to the "G2" Atmel pen/digitizer layer since the G1 had its share of issues on the EP 900, which was otherwise a pretty good device (for the day.) As with the Q584, the CPU/GPU powering the device(s) is a much better match for the sorts of work and software that is likely your norm.

With respect to using a pen with Apex, you will see that greatly improve in the next release. That product is not shipping here yet, and as folks here know, I don't talk about unreleased product publicly. The previous versions of "Apex" (v1 - v5) were designed for desktop use, though we did have our MobileSketch and Nexus products for touch and pen devices, respectively. You can expect Apex v6 to run efficiently on traditional desktop systems, touch devices as well as pen-enabled devices. I'll start releasing public info on that product in a few weeks (?) but as far as you planning ahead and scoping out devices, I would recommend sitting tight for just a little while longer so we can do tests on actual devices and report our findings. More than one user/reader here has "jumped the gun" on this in the past and regretted making a significant hardware purchase without thinking things all the way through and/or having all the facts, and felt that they did not get the results they had imagined.

Fee free to ask any specific questions you have on the devices here in this thread, and I'll answer them as best I can. If we get too far into software - and especially Apex products - I may move the conversation to another thread since this one is mostly about hardware and I generally stay away from talking about Apex products, especially "marketing" type thing. I'm not here to promote/sell Apex - this is about helping folks make good hardware decisions by being better educated.


Regards,


-Randall Garrett-
..Apex Software..

/end/
 
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OK, just a quick update. More specific information will have to wait and I'm only passing on what I can at this time - subjective info, comparing the (sample) HP ElitePad 1000 G2 to the Fujitsu Q584.

Both of these Windows 8.1 (+) Tablets are top quality devices, meant to be "companion pieces" in the field. The retail price at about $775 - $800 and the difference in performance, build and features is very notable when compared to lesser devices in the $500 - $600 range. For me, and I think for many of our customers, the extra cost is well worth it. Generally, they are both 10.1" Tablets with the preferred 16:10 aspect ratios that weigh about 1.5 lbs and are capable of running real world appraisal software for a full work day between charges. Each has a rather extensive array of factory made accessories that are useful for professionals in the field. These are business class devices that are designed to be used outdoors and have optional factory accidental drop protection policies available. Both can be used in wetter/snowier weather than you're likely to want to be out in. Both feature "HD+" screens that feature multi-touch and active pen capability. You can look up the specs, etc., so I won't go deep into that now, but will follow up later with the relevant info and why they matter later.

I've been allowed only a few days with the sample HP and the Fujitsu is more of a known quantity as it is owned personally. Keeping in mind that the HP is a sample unit and I am under NDA, I find the EP 1000 to be a tremendous improvement over the previous EP 900 and I think it will be a worthy contender. I pay attention to screens since that is a weak spot on almost all Tablets, and these are both very nice. The brightness/contrast is tweaked for data vs. a silly emphasis on video. The resolution of the HP at 1920 x 1200 is more than sufficient for our needs and the Fujitsu us even higher - higher than the iPad Retina display. I will wait for my actual retail model to compare and document with pictures, etc.

Overall, if you are on the verge of purchasing a Tablet, I recommend waiting for a few weeks if you can so you can include both of these devices in your list for consideration. These are both fast, durable devices which are designed for folks like you (vs. Indoor, casual type workers) and will give you several years of service. I believe that the few hundred extra dollars spent on a device like these is money well spent. I do not think we will see other contenders of this level until the next major rev of the Atom (Cherry Trail) arrives. The one unknown is the highly desired update to the Lenovo TPT2 which may not show up for several months. Even when it does, it will not likely be quite up to the specs of these two devices, though it will very likely be worth considering for some.

If you have any questions that I can answer, feel free to ask.


-Randall Garrett-
+Apex Software+

/end/
 
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