Windows Tablets For Fieldwork

[Tim The Enchanter]

This has become quite a tech review. Thanks, Randall.

I overcame my paralysis last week with a Samsung Galaxy Tab 3 8.0.
Android OS. So, I'm off topic.
It has an 8" screen, it's a tablet and a phone. Or a giant smartphone.
Probably look goofy holding the big thing to my ear for a call.
I could put it on speaker, or get a headset I guess.

The people in the T Mobile stores I went to in search of activation and a sim card, could not believe it was a phone. They had never seen 1 so big.
Model T3111 is not sold in the US by Samsung, but I got the unlocked phone from Amazon for about $300.
[URL]http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00E6JQ4OW/?tag=realestatappraat[/URL]

So far just RTFMing and working on figuring out the device as well as the Total Mobile thing. Slick device, compares well with the wifes IPad2. in my non expert minimally tested opinion.

Pros:
>It's big, I think it will work good for in field data collection and sketching.
>It obsoletes the old flip phone, and the maybe 4 yo Acer netbook as well.
>The built in calender / planner app looks like it will suit me nicely.
>It has GPS and all kinds of apps. Wifi, 3G, 4G, 16GB, and micro SD slot.
>Catching up to the present is pretty cool.

Cons:
>It's big. Doesn't fit in my pockets, at least not with the book like Moco case I got for it. With case it is about 8 1/2" x 5" x 1/2". Without, it is a little smaller.
Looking for a way to attach it to my belt or waist for carrying.
>The rear camera does not have a wide angle lens. I am really used to that feature with my old Kodak V705. Have not used it enough to see if that will be a serious issue.
>The Learning Curve. But hey, life's a mountain, not a beach. Climb.

Summary:

It's quite large for a phone, but I don't do a lot of phone calling, so it's not a big issue to me. If I was the guy walking along the street urgently talking into his cell phone, I'd get a bluetooth headset and join the Borg.

The phone functions are so far so good. The tablet functions also. You can verbally ask Google voice search a question, and get an answer. Faster than Apples Siri, in many youtube tests.

So far, I like it a lot. But having received it 1 week ago, I still have a lot to learn.

 

[Randall Garrett]

Congrats on "taking the plunge" and going mobile! The device you mention was popular with some of our non-US customers for some of the reasons you list. It is unfortunate for folks here that our device choices are limited by our restrictive carriers.

I happen to like that device, but for most here it isn't a particularly easy/convenient purchase - (as you know) you have to research/find it, spend the effort to get the SIM activated, etc. Again as you know, it's not particularly difficult - it's just that MOST folks these days want to be able to "walk in, buy it, have everything work."

I'd like to keep this thread devoted to Windows 8 devices but it is OK to mention others in comparative fashion. Perhaps someone should start an "Android Tablets for Field Work' thread so folks can go there to get more info, user feedback, etc. I would be happy to contribute as I have in the past on earlier (and fragmented) threads.

FWIW, I find that 8" devices work well for "pocket-ability" and that most cases interfere with that. One advantage of your device is that it will fit in mist jeans/pants pockets (rear), jackets, etc. - just don't sit on it, LOL. I believe that the notion of needing a protective case for a 7" or 8" device may be a vestigial relic of larger, non-pocket-able devices. Just my 2¢ on that and YMMV...


-Randall Garrett-
@Apex Software@

/end/

 

[Randall Garrett]

Just a picure for fun.

Just a "fun" shot. Still battling a nasty cold, but had to show up at the local Microsoft Store this morning to sign off on the delivery of the SP3's I purchased for Apex R&D staff. I think we picked up 7 today, keyboards, etc. - there are a few more which will not be available until August (Core i3 and Core i7 models.) I also had to be there to sign some other paperwork (e.g. the more comprehensive business protection stuff) and some other stuff I hinted at the other day. Otherwise, I would have just had Iain or Robert go pick stuff up. Oh, the "neck candy" is just due to some contest they are having - sign up for a "free" (ha!) vacation to Hawaii. Doubt I'll win, but if I do, I'll send an Apex employee - I just returned from there last month (it was HI who we went to train and consult on mobile tech) and as nice as it is, I'd rather send someone else.

Anyway, the store manager wanted to get a shot so one of her folks used her cell phone to take this shot and I asked her to send it to me. I figured some of you might want some "ammo" to poke fun at my disheveled and follicly-challenged appearance. You've seen my hand and wrist in several pictures before but here I am for your viewing pleasure ;-) The person to my left is our own Iain Nicholson who some of you may know via Apex Beta stuff - he runs the QA team and handles our network admin stuff. The guy to the far left is an unknown person who was to help us carry stuff to Iain's car. My MS Commercial Account rep is on the far right.

Let the humorous comments, barbs, etc. begin! ;-)


-Randall Garrett-
+Apex Software+

[Edit]
FYI - true story I thought I'd pass along. This morning, Iain also purchased an SP3 for his oldest son - a college student. Iain had purchased one of my Dell Venue 11 Pro tablets when I was done testing it so his son could use it for note taking, etc. (He got a good deal, LOL) As usual, I purchased it at the MS Store and added the $99 Complete Care (accidental damage, full support, etc.) His son had numerous issues with it while away and went to his local MS Store 2 or 3 times for service. Each time, he was handled in courteous fashion. Well, he had another problem this past May and our local store offered him full retail trade-in toward an SP3. It was a no-brainer upgrade. Anyway, Iain just paid the difference in price this morning and also got a "bundle" which included the keyboard, a slip case and a 2-year Complete Care policy. He left the store a happy camper - all smiles. Well, he just called Iain to say he had taken it out to show it off to his buds and one of them dropped it onto concrete. The approximate 5' fall to concrete marred the bezel and cracked the screen - he was nearly in tears. We sent him back to the MS Store and our rep exchanged it on the spot for a new one, no questions asked! She even gathered her staff around to point out to them WHY they are doing their customers a favor by recommending this particular protection policy. In my regular retail purchases, I tend to shy away from add-ons which are meant to add to the store's bottom line (i.e. 3rd party extended warranties, etc.) but this accidental damage protection thing for a mere $99 is absolutely worth it. We (Apex) always recommend this policy to our customers. I believe the "factory" policies (like the one through MS) is better than 3rd party policies, but I really recommend whatever you can get if it is available. The SP3 is by no means more fragile than other similar devices, and this example is the result of a "fluke" but it is a good example and I suggest you consider things like this when purchasing something significant like an SP3.

/end/

 

[Tim The Enchanter]

No threadjack intended. It just didn't seem worth a whole new thread.
May not be necessary, but the case soothes my fears of dropping the slippery thing.
Like I did the wifes IPad, Doh! :Eyecrazy:
(it survived)

 

[Non Sequitur]

The SP3 looks like a great machine, but after my great experiment with the SP1 and the Nokia Lumia (at about $1,600 invested and lost) I still feel like this blogger: http://www.digitaltrends.com/opinion/living-with-windows-8-1-and-surface-pro-3/#!15EBG

 

[Randall Garrett]

I understand your meaning, but in truth, the blogger is so typical of the numb nuts that speak out of both sides of their mouths. So, while it is not my purpose to "defend" the SP3, Microsoft or anyone else "in question" here, would it really make any difference to you if I debunked some of his points, pointed out the inaccuracies, explained things, etc? I think not.

FWIW, I've said "from the beginning" that the SP1 (and SP2) did not seem like the device best fit for most appraisers. Hence, the notion that the SP3 might not work well for you (or others) based on an SP1 experience is not the best measure IMHO. The SP3 is not "the perfect device" for some appraisers - there are elements of the design which keep it from obtaining "appraiser Nirvana" ;-) - size/weight for some, battery life (per being a real PC vs "pad"), price, etc. Each item has a pro/con ratio and only you can determine if one outweighs the other in a percentage sufficient to make something like the SP3 a good fit.

I'll also point out another item I've "harped on" before - the major item for many appraisers which is missing in the Win8+ ecosystem is mobile software specific to their industry. On the other hand, no other ecosystem allows one to run their existing "legacy" software, either. So, IF needing to run said software is important to a user, then that would be a major factor in their decision.

For MY use, the SP3 is working well, but it is also fair to say that I am no longer actively appraising so my input there on the real world aspects are diminished. In our larger Enterprise type markets, however - where the mainstay on their work IS done on legacy and proper mobile-optimized software, entities are dropping their iPads and Android Pads in droves because (for them), Windows is clearly the better choice.

FWIW, I don't believe we'll see "near perfect" Windows 8+ devices for fee appraisers until early 2015. In the interim, the SP3 and a few other devices are suitable for some and not so suitable for others. One big factor is that many (most?) fee appraisers have unrealistic expectations. Sadly, and despite their "show me just the facts (vs. claims) training, they seem to believe ads and somehow imagine that the things not shown will just work as they see in their mind's eye. This is not new - it happened with every major release of mobile products since (say) the Pocket PC/Newton/Palm days. Additionally, fee appraisers don't tend to see the value in getting training - they think it'll either "just work" (as imagined/advertised) or they can figure it out on their own. Look how long it took for (some_ appraisers to "get" the DISTO... most DO today, but some still don't. We brought that to the appraisal market in 2004 (ish) and it hasn't been until of late that we've seen any major traction there, even though the basics haven't changed all that much. I only know of one appraisal software company that is actively involved in offering courses using their mobile software. Of course, there is no serious attention paid to Windows 8+ stuff because they are selling such a product. We train on our stuff - Enterprise types see the value - but witness how many folks you actually know who have taken advantage of, say, ALM's training - even when it is free. I'd bet that the number of people who have invested the time to learn HOW to use something have a significantly better experience using their mobile software than those who haven't...

The foregoing is NOT meant so much as a "rant" (even though it probably comes across that way, LOL) - I'm just pointing out the various factors which I see at play. Again, I'm not here to defend one piece of hardware over another out of favoritism - but I think that in addition to reporting the specs/observations/thoughts on new hardware, some (most?) folks expect me to try and offer counterpoints, correct inaccuracies, etc. In the end, what we should all be interested in is the facts - there's already enough variables at play when to take into account individual preferences, skill levels, environments and the like.

I mean this to HELP and hope it gives interested parties some points to consider.


Regards,


-Randall Garrett-
+Apex Software+

/end/

 

[Randall Garrett]

Switching gears away from SP3...

Last week, an HP P610 I had ordered a while back finally arrived. With all the hubbub around deploying the SP3s, I have not been able to do the comparative tests between the P610 and the +$200 more expensive EP1000 shown in some of the pictures in recent posts. My EP1000 is unavailable to me ATM, but I have another one coming in - due next week. I'll use the time in-between now and then to better familiarize myself with the P610 itself. That said, at first blush, this model of the P610 (4 GB RAM) does indeed appear to be a less expensive version of the EP1000. Other than the 64 GB of storage (vs. 128 GB), my initial tests show it to be as bright & peppy as the EP1000. It is roughly the same size as the EP1000 but uses a different arrangement of ports/locations, so the specialty accessories for the EP1000 will not fit. I did not order any covers for it so I can't speak to that ATM. I will, however go on-line and see what sort of basic accessories are available that a typical appraiser might want. I'll be tied up tomorrow but hope to have some time on Wednesday and this coming weekend. I may shoot a shot or two, but without the EP1000 next to it, I don't know how informative that would be to someone trying to decide between the two.

For now, though, I am posting a quick snap I took today to demonstrate the answer to a question posed to me on another forum - does the P610 work with the pen. The answer is yes, and I can confirm that the EP1000 and P610 use the same pen. The shot below is of Iain using ink on an Av6 test build we were sending to an Integration Partner. For some reason, I forgot to order a pen for the P610 and did that later. Hence, it shipped later, so for initial testing I used the pen from my EP1000.

Hope this helps for now. Let me know if you have any specific questions.


-Randall Garrett-
+Apex Software+

/end/

 

[Randall Garrett]

Op Ed

I read the following article with interest and thought some of you might like it, too. I mostly agree with the points, though the author (whom I otherwise respect) misses a few points... or maybe, like me!, is capable of just not wording things in a way that accurately conveys his actual thoughts/points. (To wit, this very post, LOL)

The basic article is about the difference(s) between a "Device" and "a PC." This is relevant in this thread as we are discussing Windows 8 (+) Tablets for Fieldwork. He classifies a Dell Venue 11Pro as a "hybrid" but a Lenovo ThinkPad 10 is a "Tablet." I could argue that their form and function are similar enough to be in the same category as far as we here are concerned. Additionally, I don't think he gives enough thought/distinction to CPU/RAM variances as I find the right balance to be sort of like the Goldilocks thing -too little CPU & RAM is "too cold", too much CPU, size & weight to be "too hot", but certain combinations are "just right."

Anyway, here is the link for your perusal: http://windowsitpro.com/mobile/its-all-windows-yes-pcs-are-not-same-devices


-Randall Garrett-
@Apex Software@

/end/

 

[Randall Garrett]

Nothing special here, just sharing a quick snap shot I made for a user on another larger forum who had a question on the color accuracy of the HP P610 vs. the Q584. I wrote to say that my Q584 is out ATM so he commented that he was also considering the SP3. His main concern seems to be color accuracy (he is evidently an artist type) and mentioned the reds used on the Coca Cola™ site, so I snapped the picture below. I do not own proper calibration equipment and am not that concerned about that sort of accuracy since bright, vivid screens with high contrast is far more important for our usage than whether pantone 196 is 4 points off ;-)

Anyway, I thought some of you might be interested to see the HP P610 next to my SP3. I set the P610 on a cheesy plastic stand and angled the SP3 to a close match. I turned off the lights and shot this with my Lumia 1020 phone. The original image is, of course, a lot better - this image has been uploaded to another site and then again here, so it has gone through two sets of compression and reduction. Nevertheless, for our purposes, it shows the relative size, screen brightness, etc.

Hope this helps!


-Randall Garrett-
+Apex Software+

/end/

**

 

[ajwells]

Trying to decide between W8 machines.

After sending back a Lenovo X240 due to the awful design work on the new touchpad/trackpoint I'm looking at upper end desktop replacements to run Windows 8... after messing with the x240 its clear you have to have a touchscreen to run the OS, so I'm looking at the Samsung Ativ 9 plus as well as the Surface Pro 3... I love how the OS runs on the Surface pro, with scaling and operation so elegant and smooth... but the keyboard seems challenging... although if I used it, it would probably be in a dock with an outboard monitor and keyboard/mouse most of the time... any thoughts on the benefits of a tablet versus a typical laptop configuration?

Andrew Wells

I understand your meaning, but in truth, the blogger is so typical of the numb nuts that speak out of both sides of their mouths. So, while it is not my purpose to "defend" the SP3, Microsoft or anyone else "in question" here, would it really make any difference to you if I debunked some of his points, pointed out the inaccuracies, explained things, etc? I think not.

FWIW, I've said "from the beginning" that the SP1 (and SP2) did not seem like the device best fit for most appraisers. Hence, the notion that the SP3 might not work well for you (or others) based on an SP1 experience is not the best measure IMHO. The SP3 is not "the perfect device" for some appraisers - there are elements of the design which keep it from obtaining "appraiser Nirvana" ;-) - size/weight for some, battery life (per being a real PC vs "pad"), price, etc. Each item has a pro/con ratio and only you can determine if one outweighs the other in a percentage sufficient to make something like the SP3 a good fit.

I'll also point out another item I've "harped on" before - the major item for many appraisers which is missing in the Win8+ ecosystem is mobile software specific to their industry. On the other hand, no other ecosystem allows one to run their existing "legacy" software, either. So, IF needing to run said software is important to a user, then that would be a major factor in their decision.

For MY use, the SP3 is working well, but it is also fair to say that I am no longer actively appraising so my input there on the real world aspects are diminished. In our larger Enterprise type markets, however - where the mainstay on their work IS done on legacy and proper mobile-optimized software, entities are dropping their iPads and Android Pads in droves because (for them), Windows is clearly the better choice.

FWIW, I don't believe we'll see "near perfect" Windows 8+ devices for fee appraisers until early 2015. In the interim, the SP3 and a few other devices are suitable for some and not so suitable for others. One big factor is that many (most?) fee appraisers have unrealistic expectations. Sadly, and despite their "show me just the facts (vs. claims) training, they seem to believe ads and somehow imagine that the things not shown will just work as they see in their mind's eye. This is not new - it happened with every major release of mobile products since (say) the Pocket PC/Newton/Palm days. Additionally, fee appraisers don't tend to see the value in getting training - they think it'll either "just work" (as imagined/advertised) or they can figure it out on their own. Look how long it took for (some_ appraisers to "get" the DISTO... most DO today, but some still don't. We brought that to the appraisal market in 2004 (ish) and it hasn't been until of late that we've seen any major traction there, even though the basics haven't changed all that much. I only know of one appraisal software company that is actively involved in offering courses using their mobile software. Of course, there is no serious attention paid to Windows 8+ stuff because they are selling such a product. We train on our stuff - Enterprise types see the value - but witness how many folks you actually know who have taken advantage of, say, ALM's training - even when it is free. I'd bet that the number of people who have invested the time to learn HOW to use something have a significantly better experience using their mobile software than those who haven't...

The foregoing is NOT meant so much as a "rant" (even though it probably comes across that way, LOL) - I'm just pointing out the various factors which I see at play. Again, I'm not here to defend one piece of hardware over another out of favoritism - but I think that in addition to reporting the specs/observations/thoughts on new hardware, some (most?) folks expect me to try and offer counterpoints, correct inaccuracies, etc. In the end, what we should all be interested in is the facts - there's already enough variables at play when to take into account individual preferences, skill levels, environments and the like.

I mean this to HELP and hope it gives interested parties some points to consider.


Regards,


-Randall Garrett-
+Apex Software+

/end/