Windows Tablets For Fieldwork

[Rob Bodkin]

Device Testing

I had a nice hole in the middle of my work day that was shaped just like a visit to the Microsoft store and a local retailer who sells/services Fujitsu and HP. Combined with a visit to Best Buy over the weekend I've been able to test drive some Windows and Android tablets as well as the Surface Pro 3.

The not so great news is that of the devices I most wanted to get my hands on only the SP3 and Thinkpad Yoga were available to test. The Q584 is available for order, but they do not stock them. No one had even heard of the HP EP 1000 and none had the new TP10. Grrr.

I really liked both the yoga and the SP3. They represent two different approaches to the "tablet that will replace the desktop and be the only computer I need" avenue. Both were powerful, snappy, great handwriting recognition/One note response. The Thinkpad has an excellent keyboard and good screen, more matte which might be better outdoors. It is also twice the weight, or near enough, 3.5 lbs vs. 1.78 +/-.

The SP3 was hands down my favorite of the devices I've tried out. Again quite responsive and it feels the same in my hand as my iPad Retina with it's case in terms of weight. The screen is gorgeous and when using it in portrait mode and walking around the store pretending to be inspecting a house and making notes it was the first time that notion or desire felt totally doable and natural. If that made any sense.

After putting a good Galaxy note 10.1 through similar paces (I use the note 3 as my personal phone) it was just no real comparison in terms of which feels more substantial and capable. The SP3, though at twice the cabbage it should.

The difference between the HP 1000, with bigger HD, rugged case and accident protection vs a SP3 with similar specs and protection was not much at all.

The HP can likely handle any weather situation I face with no sweat and might be a little handier, but the SP3 is so much more machine. Randall where is the video of the SP3 dunked in your rain barrel???

 

[Randall Garrett]

Hi Rob,

I am not surprised in the least that none of those shops had the Q584 on hand. It is a specialty device for a vertical market, and I imagine that shop just doesn't see enough traffic on the "mobile inspector" crowd to justify getting one in. Is is a fine device, but again, the "unique" feature of being "waterproof" is likely overkill for your needs. With respect to the EP1000, I am continually somewhat amazed that HP hasn't seemed to put much effort in making more folks aware of it. Between it and the Q584, it probably represents a better choice for most appraisers whose use case fits in with a lightweight "companion" device. But, as noted, your primary interests are more toward the "tablet that could function as a (near) desktop replacement" withe respect to horsepower, etc. That capability, of course, introduces it's own set of compromises - generally weigh at battery life. This is, or should be, understandable - one can't reasonably expect a device as slim and light as (say) the SP3 to have the same weight and battery life envelopes as something with a smaller screen, lower horsepower CPU/GPU, etc.

The SP3 is a remarkable device and I understand the appeal (I bought maybe 10 of them, myself), and here are several here who purchased the previous models even though I have continually opined that I do not believe they were the best device for most regular appraisers. I've written extensively on why I have this opinion, but it seems that folks forget all that one they start fondling devices and letting their emotions and (largely inaccurate) imaginations suggest that they are somehow unique or sufficiently different in their needs compared to the host of actual mobile field professionals we have supported over the years. That doesn't bother me from a personal perspective so much, but I have to work at restraining my self from writing some pretty caustic "I told you so!" Posts when some write how Windows just won't work for them in the field. Those types rarely consider the fact that they simply bought the wrong devices for the task at hand and/or failed to send the required effort to adjust their process(es) to properly embrace mobility factors. This is nothing new, nor is it limited to Fee Appraisers - I see it in the majority of county assessment jurisdictions in North America, as well. Some of them are just now dealing with their largely failed iPad deployments which were initiated by folks with their own agendas (read: Johnny-come-lately vendors promising some miraculous efficiency gains IF ONLY the customer would adopt their "solution."). If I come across sounding a little frustrated here, it's just because I am dealing with 3 counties right now who are trying to "salvage" their massive investment in such deployments and it could have been avoided. In the end, we'll end up charging them MUCH more for some custom stuff than it would cost to simply change devices. I shouldn't complain, as it just makes me more money, but in my consultant role, I can't ignore the waste of time and money. It's not THEIR money - it's YOURS - so they are many time more interested in making sure that their decision to deploy such an ill advised solution doesn't reflect on their careers. If I can, I'd like for Fee Appraisers here to listen & learn in hopes that they can avoid some of these mistakes.

All that said, IF you are sold on the SP3, I won't try to dissuade you from getting it. Here are some thoughts to consider when making the decision.

• You mentioned, perhaps jokingly(?), something about a water torture test for one of my SP3s. AINT GONNA HAPPEN - as you likely know, the SP3 is an air-cooled device, hence the small "vents" located around a good portion of the perimeter. Not only would water be able to enter there, but just regular dust & dirt. One up any of your PCs and look at how much has collected there, and presumably your desktop PC has never gone with you on inspections;-). It likely has a considerably larger interior volume and relatively much larger spaces between components, so it can run for years without requiring cleaning. Obviously, a mobile device I doesn't have the luxury of having a lot of extra interior space...
• The screen on the SP3 isn't particularly bright. It is admirably viewable, given its sub-400 nit brightness (generally speaking, 400 nits is sort of the division between bright and just OK) so it needs more help than other devices IF you are expecting to use it in direct sunlight. A GOOD anti-glare screen protector can help here - just get a GOOD one (also not found in shops that don't know squat about mobile field inspection stuff), and especially avoid the crap usually on display at most retailers. Despite the comparatively high cost ($25-30 vs.$5-$10), don't expect ANY of them to perform miracles - DESPITE what may be shown in their ads, they just take the edge off of the glare common to outdoor use and make them "usable." In my own experience, and in the typically bright south Texas sun, a "naked" SP3 is comfortably usable under the eaves on an overcast day, but not at all indirect sun. With the best anti-glare screen protector installed, it is usable under the eaves on "typical days" and just barely view-able in direct sun. YMMV, depending on your location/ambient environment.
• Speaking of environment, look up the specs for the device you are getting. Pay attention to the operating conditions which are "covered" with respect to temperatures. Be sure to factor in the temps in your car... Of course, you'll get the accidental damage policy, right? It would be a shame to pay for that, not to mention the device itself, and get a claim denied due to "improper use by the customer." Just sayin'...
• Find a good "bump case" with strap (?) - I recommend this for all larger tablets. I haven't found one yet - again, the SP3 does not figure high enough on my recommended device list to warrant the effort to source a suitable one yet. I look from time to time, follow accessory threads, but no strong effort is deemed warranted at this time. IF you find one, please let me know so I can pass the info along.
• Get a car charger. I recommend this even for devices more suited for mobile inspection duties, too. It is just likely more important to you since the battery life is shorter on such a slim and light "full iCore device" than it would be on something else.
• I recommend ordering the optional desk dock for the SP3 to complete your experience. Should be commonly available by mid-August. I am not allowed to publish pictures of mine, but others have already done so. It is slightly more expensive than the generic ones, but I think it is better...

Please do not take any of the foregoing to mean that I do not like the SP3. Actually, I do like it... I just want to make sure you know what you're doing and that you consider the full extent of what you're getting into before you do it. Sometimes I see folks just take the initial costs into account when comparing devices - i.e. That the SP3 is only slightly more than (say) an EP1000 or similar. There is no perfect device. With the Bay Trail devices, you make other compromises - generally less horsepower, smaller screens, harder to find, etc. by next Spring, we should be seeing the next gen CPUs and with that, new iterations of current devices. No guarantees offered here but,I expect to see Cherry Trail devices on the "light" side and even some Broadwell devices on the "full" side. Outside of some (minor?) anticipated design tweaks to form factors, Cherry Trail brings more horsepower and throughput while Broadwell brings "fan less" designs and better battery life. There will still be a gap, but it will be a little narrower.

Hope this helps for now!


-Randall Garrett-
@Apex Software@

/end/

 

[Randall Garrett]

For those following the Lenovo ThinkPad 10 story, we're now seeing the predicted drop in pricing now that the supply chain is starting to level off

As many of you may remember, this device is one of the few "companion" devices we recommend, based on my own personal experience as well as feedback from users in other markets who are using them for actual valuation type work. At 1.3 lbs., this slim device is really nice and has enough accessories available to make it viable for folks who want such a device. I believe this is the last device of this class to be available this year - we won't likely see business class "Cherry Trail" or "Broadwell" devices until Q2 of next year.

The TP10 is a business class device with the latest generation of the Intel Atom "Bay Trail" CPU. Like the HP EP 1000 (and somewhat "lesser" Pro 610) and Fujitsu Q584, being a "business class" device means it is constructed better than the more common and less expensive "consumer grade" devices typically found in typical on-line and "big box" stores. Basically, these are “business rugged” tablets, not the much more expensive (and hefty) mil-spec units. These are device more likely to hold up being tossed on the seat, falling on the floorboard, even survive a drop onto outdoor surfaces (grass, dirt, etc. , not necessarily a “perfect storm” drop onto concrete, into a creek, etc.), aren't too phased by regular rain or snow, etc. so they are fine for most outdoor work. (I always recommend anti-glare screen protectors.) Have I mentioned that enough? ;-)

The TP10 is available in 2 basic models – ones with 2 GB of RAM and a 32-bit OS, and ones with 4 GB of RAM and a 64-bit OS. Generally speaking, the 32-bit devices max out at 64 GB of storage where the 64-bit versions have 128 GB of storage. For most, the 64 GB of storage can work (they all have microSD storage expansion slots) but I only recommend the models with 4 GB of RAM and the 64-bit OS for reasons I have explained (ad nauseam , LOL) in several earlier diatribes ;-) (Summarily, it's the RAM that is the most important factor here, not so much the storage space.)

Today, we see the TP10 being offered in the recommended configuration for $619 on Lenovo’s site. This model has 128 GB of storage and is only $20 more than the 2 GB model with 32-bit OS and 64 GB of storage, so you’d be crazy to get the $599 version over the $619 version… Yet to be released (here) is the model with 4G. I got the 4G model but that is a personal decision based on MY particular use case. I have successfully used non-4G models “tethered” to my phone and with MY particular phone, this is easy – YMMV on that, depending on your particular combination of device OS (and build), carrier, etc. With MY set-up, having recently been optimized to make this simple, I could have gone with the non-4G model and saved the extra (equiv.) $200 USD extra charge… Again, YMMV on this aspect. I don’t expect to see the 4G model showing up on the US site before the end of the month…

http://shop.lenovo.com/us/en/tablets/thinkpad/thinkpad-10/

Note that most on-line sites (i.e. Amazon) still have the 2 GB/32-bit OS/64 GB storage model listed for $629 and other specialty retailers don’t have stock yet – they are just ordering direct from Lenovo and getting a small “commission.” Typical business outlets (CDW, etc.) show the units in the $800 range. Also note that the model that Lenovo lists for $619 is the “Bing” version, which basically means that is comes pre-configured with MS Bing as the default search engine (vs. Google, or whatever.) This does NOT mean that you can’t change that, just that the manufacturer cannot change it in their default shipping mode, so all you “anti-Bing” folks don’t really need to start writing your “MS Sux” posts ;-)

Lenovo has been known for slow shipping in recent months, but they are showing a 5 – 7 business day shipping now, so I am not particularly concerned about availability like I would have been months earlier. That said, I got mine through different means (not recommended) so I do not have personal experience ordering this model, as listed today, directly from Lenovo US.

Now, to put this in perspective, Amazon is still showing the older ThinkPad Tablet 2 (“TPT2”) with the older Clover Trail CPU, 2 GB of RAM, 64 GB of storage and 32-bit OS for $280 (they show one for a little less, but that one does not come with the Wacom pen, nor can it be added since that model does not have the right screen anyway.) IF your needs are not so “heavy” as to need 64-Bit, 4 GB and a 1366 x 768 screen is OK with you (and I find it to be fine for the price), this old model is still one of my all-time favorites. Just don’t plan on using it with heavy apps, a lot of multi-tasking, etc. and expect it to perform like a modern laptop, not to mention a full desktop… I just ordered one of these because someone ran off with my old one and I need it to do a performance comparison with my TP10. http://www.amazon.com/dp/B009TLA7P4/?tag=realestatappraat


Hope this helps! Questions? If they are of use to all, ask away and I’ll try to answer “concisely” ;-) If they are specific or personal, PM me, please.



-Randall Garrett-
+Apex Software+

/end/

 

[Rob Bodkin]

Thanks for the update on the TP10 Randall, and the feedback about the SP3.

It seems like we are still "close" to having the option that seamlessly travels between desktop and field device, at a reasonable price point, without giving up too much on either end, but not quite. Something with the guts and function of the SP3 and the carefree qualities of the Q584. Not quite yet.

For me and my business needs I am now focusing on a device that will enhance what I do away from the shop, but not replace the big iMac.

I'm going to try a little comparison between what I felt were my two best choices in a companion device, today. I've got a Galaxy Note 10.1 2014 version and a HP EP1000 on the way. They represent the best choices I can see, at this point, for a device to be used primarily as a field device.

I can make a great case for choosing either, each can do some things the other cannot, but both do many similar things. It's two different approaches to the "problem" and I am really interested in seeing how they shake out.

I'm also really looking forward to taking the Alamode class at the end of the month. They focus on the IOS and Android for their field "app", and for today that might be the best choice in a companion. While the EP1000, using Onenote and a full sketch program likely will replicate how I work today best. Plus I can then run the entire program in the field.

Having next week to myself, the wife is traveling, I can put some dedicated smack down time in on the devices. If that does not make me sound older and nerdier than I ever wanted to be i don't know what would.

 

[Randall Garrett]

Hi Rob,

Glad to help!

With respect to your thoughts on "being close", I think you are correct. For most folks, we're about 85% - 90% of the way there to the (near) perfect machine. For some, we're close enough now.... I believe that the next round will put us really close to ticking off enough boxes to be sufficiently viable for most fee appraisers. I think the big thing will be more powerful fan-less devices - "Cherry Trail" (Atom) and "Broadwell" (Core iX) will enable this. Additional refinements to both Windows (i.e. "Threshold") and the devices themselves, will add to the mix. I don't expect to see any new significant "players" in the mix of those who make the best fit machines. Again, though, I believe that IF users have realistic expectations, the devices discussed most recently will perform admirably. Sadly, most folks still seem to have unrealistic expectations, somehow thinking that a 1.5 lb device with long battery life will be able to do what their desktops will do with respect to "horsepower-related" items... ;-)

Expect to perhaps rethink your approach to some items while evaluating the EP1000. "Going mobile" successfully entails looking for ways you CAN make things work given the different environment. Sketching is an example - when working at the desktop, you'd generally be "transcribing" your paper field sketch vs. drawing it from scratch. That is, you already have the shape, critical dimensions, etc. Drawing in the field, you essentially don't know what's around the next corner... Hence, the software absolutely needs to work differently. Simply making one's old sketch program be able to run on a mobile device (predictably) turns out to be frustrating to the end user. Sometimes new and/or modified techniques need to be introduced into the software to facilitate the on-site conditions. This is obviously something we know quite a bit about, but my point is not to tout our software - I just use sketching as an example because we... ummm, know more than most about this ;-) - but, rather to give you a heads up about OTHER software you might use in the field. Perhaps the biggest items would be your "forms" software. Keep in mind that regular "forms" software is designed primarily to create the finished report and you enter in stuff after you already have your inspection data, access to on-line assets, comps data, etc. "Filling out the form" on site is not the most efficient process - you don't typically inspect the subject property in the order that the finished report form is presented in your desktop software, hence there is a goodly amount of navigating back and forth between "pages/sections." Some data in the forms is a summary of several individual rooms/sections, etc. I expect that you already realize this and know that with some creative approaches, you can make things work well enough to offset the (sometimes) additional time it takes to enter the data vs. "transcribe" it from paper notes to "form entry"...

I gather from your comments that you are comfortable using an Android tablet i.e. a Galaxy Note 10.1 (?) If so, and you're just looking for something more powerful, perhaps with a better screen (our aging eyes, LOL) you might still consider the Galaxy Note Pro 12.2. At $650 - $750, depending on configuration, it is not much less than the EP1000, but the screen is larger but weighs about the same and can run a proper mobile app that you are perhaps already familiar with. I own one myself, and while I prefer Windows 8.1+ tablets, this might be a good fit for YOU at present (?) IF you can forego the active pen (I don't believe the mobile app mention has specific support for it anyway), I find the Galaxy Tab S 10.5 to have the best screen (see comments and pics on the Galaxy Tab S 8.4 here: http://appraisersforum.com/showpost.php?p=2502252&postcount=9) It is available for about $500 in white - the recommended color (so you can more easily bounce a DISTO laser off of it when needed.) Just food for thought - either of these units might be the best device for YOU while you wait for next Spring (?)

Hope this helps!


-Randall Garrett-
+Apex Software+

/end/

 

[Rlong]

I'm back; looking for 3G options in the above referenced tablets.. I think my primary options are: Dell Venue 11, which I like but minimum config with LTE (on Dell.) is like $995 or so (I thought I configured a $750, but could not replicate), and HP EP1000 (nice too) at $909. I believe a Fujitsu Q584 LTE exists,, but I couldn't find it (US?). All I really want to do is communicate, primarily email/portals, and be able to add "No additional comparables that bracketed the subject blah blah blah..." in Total; sign, send, order beer....
I may just stick with the hotspot, and only pay $500 for a wifi (only) unit; I likely don’t even need any of the additional storage or speed I might gain by upgrading to the $900 level. ..type “No additional, blah blah…..”, sign and make sure I sit close to the car to send..
Bob in CO

 

[Randall Garrett]

Hi Bob,

I totally understand the convenience factor for a 4G model IF a Wi-Fi model will work well (enough) for you, then you have more choices "today" and can save about $200 - $250 by, adding a little "hassle factor." For ME (per my phones of choice), the Wi-Fi option is not much hassle but I still prefer devices with built-in 4G, even though it is yet another data plan to manage. IF your phone can be set up to recognize BT4 as a valid device, you might be surprised how well that works. I find that regular "light" tasks (email and most surfing) speeds are fast enough for my daily use and you don't get the big battery drain on either the phone nor tablet like is common with conventional "tethering via Wi-Fi." You'd not prefer to upload a 10 or 20 MB file via the BT4 connection - you can always "toggle on/off Wi-Fi hotspot" IF you really need to send a large file, but regular stuff is surprisingly good via a low power BT4 connection. I now just leave BT4 enabled on my devices - the advantage of BT4 over earlier versions is the lower power draw per the "at need vs. always on" nature of BT4. Of course, BT draws FAR less power than Wi-Fi, but the additional battery life savings and convenience of BT4 on both tablet and phone make this option particularly convenient for the use case I am imagining by your description. The ability to configure your phone for a proper connection so Win 8.1+ sees it as a valid option (vs. something more "casual" like a head set, "fitness thingie", etc.) is the thing to confirm with someone who is familiar with your phone. I use a WP8+ phone and it works like a charm (plus I get the best camera in the biz as a bonus.) IF, however your existing phone will work with only a moderate level of convenience, you might want to stick with that before considering an upgrade to your phone. New phones are constantly being announced (shipping later, etc.) so you'd want to wait a bit for the next round of announcements, shipping dates and a few reviews before committing to a new phone just for better BT4 connectivity.

In any case, I think your selections narrow down to the TP10 (excellent price and performance) or the EP1000. I am not a big fan of the Dell Venue 11 Pro now that we have better options. The DV11P does have one item that the others do not have - a removable battery - but it is not enough to offset the substandard pen and the inferior 16:9 aspect ratio of the screen. (16:9 is a video aspect ratio, 16:10 is more oriented toward business items.) In the field, the 16:10 aspect ratio of both the TP10 and EP1000 does actually make a difference... I think that deciding on the amount of environmental protection you need may be one of the deciding factors between the Lenovo and the HP. IF you are not routinely in the hinterland or trudging through snow/sleet/rain, either will do just fine and so the lighter weight of the TP10 may win the day. Of course, the lower price may help, too. Either can be configured with keyboard docs and rugged "bump case/sleeve" options and both have factory accidental drop protection options, For our purposes, both the Wacom and Atmel pens work fine in all applications I have personally tested.

As I sort of noted in a prior post, IF you don't want/need a 4GB device, you can still find a Lenovo ThinkPad Tablet 2 with 4G - you gotta search and it is still a RAM and CPU limited device, so it may not fit the bill, but it is pretty inexpensive. They were particularly slow "out of the box" with Win 8.0 and old Lenovo drivers, but once you spend the time to do all the software and firmware updates, they are pretty snappy for their specs. That said, I still think that your best option is the newer 4GB models...

Hope this helps! I'm sure that others here will be interested in your experiences so I hope you will share them so that others may benefit.


Regards,


-Randall Garrett-
+Apex Software+

/end/

 

[Randall Garrett]

FWIW, the Lenovo TP10 in recommended configuration (4GB RAM, 128GB storage, with active pen) just dropped $31 - from $619 to $588.05 (don't know why) at the link mentioned in my earlier post Again, the model with 2GB RAM and 64 GB Storage is only $19 less, so the $588 version is the better buy, even if you don't really need the extra storage (I maintain that the extra 2GB of RAM and 64-bit OS are the main kickers.) Everything else seems the same, though I am struggling with the Lenovo site right now to add the accidental drop protection coverage for someone I am trying to help configure a machine. At this particular moment, it seems that I have to have them complete the order, then go in, enter the S/N and add the drop protection as a separate transaction. In the past, it was just a "tick box" option toward the end... I know they are revamping parts of their site, so this may be just a temporary inconvenience.

-Randall Garrett-
+Apex Software+

/end/

 

[Rlong]

Yea I had forgotten about the TP10, I converted to a Thinkpad Laptop (used off lease) several years ago and I have been happy (2 1/2 years on a $300 laptop). But if I try to figure out the price difference for 4G LTE, I can't find a model for less than $1,119. So my choice SEEMS to be $589, for a strong "base" model OR $1120 w/ mobile broad band??

I'm excited about the prospect of a Thinkpad tablet, I just wish I could figure out the "adjustment" (appraiser obsessing). It appears to be 100%! although I would get additional features I probably don't need.

I'll see if I can go touch one somewhere..

Thanks,
Bob

 

[Rob Bodkin]

Yes, that price point on the TP10 is pretty sweet, tempting. I am "typing" on the HP 1000 on screen keyboard as we speak, and with similar gear, but a larger HD the TP10 is a few hundred bucks less. That's off the top of my sorta fuzzy head.

The HP is interesting, I love the size in my hand and walking around. The pen, when it's working correctly, delivers a very nice "inking" experience. I just had the Galaxy Note 10.1 2014 version for a test spin and the inking was not nearly as nice. Some of that no doubt is just the digitizer size, the HP has a pen that feels like a pen and the Samsung has a smaller "S Pen" it's skinnier and sorta stubby.

I initially had a "vision" of using whatever device to write, in one note or similar, my inspection walk through and complete the sketch on-site with the sketch program of choice. My experience so far is that the Windows device handwriting recognition has been better than the Samsung, but the 10" tablet might just be too small for that to work well. The inking experience on the HP is good when it's flat on the desk, but less so when in the hand. And oh yeah, i think the pen is sorta FUBAR. No idea what happened to it. But when it was working it was pretty sweet.

So that's one side of the equation. The other is running Total and their sketcher on the tablet. No super great. But some/most of that is likely operator error and unreasonable expectations. The operator error part, likely, is getting the keyboard to auto open when moving from field to field. That has to be a setting issue. Another issue is that they are just not built around the digitizer pen. So for the sketcher to work you need a keyboard that has arrows or a 10 key for navigation. Rut Ro. So that might be the unreasonable expectation part, or I might just need to keep stumbling around until i find the right keyboard.

The IOS and Android App side was, not surprisingly, easier to figure out and work with. I "appraised" my little tri-level with each version, I sketched with each and filled in some fields, and that was much easier to just pick up and go with. In both I preferred the on screen keyboard to the S Pen on the galaxy and Jot Touch on the iPad.

The Galaxy was good and if I did not have a reasonably current iPad it might still be here. The HP is promising, but the jury is still out. That is an initial take on both, more to come.