Windows Tablets For Fieldwork

[nauthead]

RG, do you think 4 gigs of memory is enough for appraisal programs plus the other things typically running on a PC (web browser, drop box, etc.)? My HP laptop with the i3 processor seems to get bogged down when I do much multi tasking and it has 6 gigs. I kinda want one with 8 gigs but that limits my options. As far as price I would like to stay under $1,500. Thanks for your input on this forum.

 

[nauthead]

Thanks for the PM Randall.

 

[Randall Garrett]

Nauthead,

First - I do not remember sending you a PM recently. Please check to make sure it was recent or even from me. I've been having difficulty with this forum since the big upgrade (which I personally find to be a downgrade in convenience - YMMV.) In any case, I'd be interested to see what was in that post, so can you reply to my PM, please?

As to your question from last night, I read you to want more of a companion device vs. a desktop replacement class machine. Since you mention the need to do (a lot of?) multitasking and are indicating that your Core i3 with 6 GB is sluggish, I would definitely look at the SP3 with Core i5 and 8 GB of RAM. I believe it comes with a 256 GB SSD. My son uses one and it performs fine under his (relatively) heavy lifting activities at a software development company in CA on a daily basis. Unless you are doing a lot of "rendering" type activities, a Core i7 is actually overkill and you're better off saving the money and putting the savings elsewhere. In order to be complete, could you let me know more about your HP? I'd be interested in the specs - which OS are you using, 32-bit or 64, what HDD, and which software are you using?

Regards,


-Randall Garrett-
+Apex Software+

/end/

 

[nauthead]

It was addressed to TS but came to me somehow. My HP laptop is a Probook with Windows 7 Ultimate, 64 bit, i3 M350 CPU (2.27 Ghz). The primary software is Clickforms, Microsoft Office, Adobe PDF writer.

 

[Randall Garrett]

Nauthead,

So, from my (questionable LOL) memory, your current laptop is a 15+" device that weighs about 5 lbs and has a 5400 RPM HDD... does this sound about right?

If so, I have to ask about the importance of screen size and weight. I know we all want the biggest screen, lightest weight and fastest performance for as little money as possible, but there are always compromises involved, so its about which items are the most important. You're writing in a Tablet thread, so is it safe to assume that you want/need "tablet-specific" functionality as well, or is it just the size/weight thing? Obviously, when on the move, screen size leads to larger overall size and heavier weight, but you can use a smaller device while on the move and still hook up to a monster monitor (or more) when at a desk, "docked" so to speak.

FWIW, just based on the specs alone, I'm not seeing any red flags with regard to super- "hoggy" applications in play so moving to a mid-level Core i5, more RAM and an SSD (vs. slow HDD) will greatly improve your seat-of-the-pants performance. CPU itself is not likely the main issue - it'll most likely be the data files and size of the app - not the horsepower required to run the apps. So, the SSD and additional RAM will open up your pipes some and the higher performance CPU will simply be a more efficient processor - some baseline items but mainly a great traffic cop. I'd estimate about a 35% - 40% increase in just CPU "stats" type performance. Add in the upgrade to a proper SSD and it'll be closer to twice as fast but due to the nature of your activities. it'll feel between 2x and 3x faster (especially in boot up!) when doing normal work things. The additional portability aspects, better display(s), longer battery life, etc. may well put the value proposition even higher for you

If you type a lot, Lenovo ThinkPads have absolutely the BEST keyboards, but the newer Dells and a few of the HPs are not horrible, either I prefer ThinkPads due to their "business class" build (ability to take more abuse while on the move), etc., But the Dells offer inexpensive ("factory" = better than generic third party!) Accidental Drop protection policies, so if you configure to always back up to SD card, dropping/breaking one is not a major financial catastrophe - just pop out the SD card and load your data onto another machine while waiting for the repair/replacement. FWIW, I note that the Lenovo ThinkPad Yoga has the side numeric pad and starts at about $1,100 (before sales.) It has a slower 5400 RPM HDD, though, so you might want to swap it for a faster SDD. IF you can deal with "only" a 13.3" screen, the new Dell referenced earlier with the non-glossy screen, Core i5, etc. might be the better buy for you, though. I believe it starts under $1,000 and the accidental drop thing is something like $79 for year 1... I'd go by a Best Buy or similar and take a look. If you want/need a touch screen, you'd be looking at a bit more and a glossy screen (add $25 anti-glare screen protector...)

Of course, the SP3 Core i5, 8 GB, 256 GB is between those prices and your max budget of $1,500 (?) The Keyboard is surprisingly useful in the field, but you'd want to use a "real" keyboard and full size monitor(s) at your desk. I can routinely use mine in it's MS dock with multiple screens via display port - including 30" @ 2560x1600. Have not tried 4K (yet) due lack of time, LOL.

[Edit] - I forgot to mention that moving to the latest Windows 8.1+ will also increase your performance - even on your "old" laptop. The OS is simply lighter and thus faster than Win 7 (especially W7 Ultimate) so you'll pick up some performance there. Just configure it to boot straight to desktop and you won't have much angst. If you think you want to try some lighter "apps", then you'll want to get your device with a touch screen. FWIW, our testing to date shows that W10 is even faster, even in Pre-Release trim and the improvements to the desktop operations are very popular with those folks. The state of Tablet performance on W10 is a minor step back at present, but we all knew to expect this since the focus right now is on desktop. The later builds of W10 will restore (and improve) tablet stuff. The Consumer preview should be out within the next 30 days, but I do NOT recommend anyone using it on anything closely resembling a production machine! Anyway, just go with Win 8.1+ and you'll enjoy the increased performance over W7U.

Hope this helps! Let me know if I am off track... We've delved toward laptops here, but if you want/need some more tablet functionality beyond just the size/weight aspects, perhaps we can tighten up things somewhat.


-Randall Garrett-
+Apex Software+

/end/

 

[nauthead]

My HP is actually a 17" but it's just too heavy for almost anything but dining room table use. The rest of the specs sound about right. We bought two HP laptops right about the same time (2009 or 2010 maybe, one a 17 and one a 15.6"). Both have been nuttin but trouble. The 15.6 had the screen and hard drive replaced under warrantee. I am planning to attach the new device to a monitor when I'm in my office so screen size is second to performance. In a perfect world it would be small enough to carry easily but large enough to sketch with. I currently have a Galaxy Note 8.0 that I use for sketching (with Apex) and I am comfortable with that size. But of course smaller size means less memory and processor so I know I will likely have to go to a larger size tablet.

 

[Randall Garrett]

I would encourage you to think things through and consider a 2-device solution going forward. Here is my reasoning and it is developed by way of experience with other users. It may not be exactly what you are looking for right now, but you should consider the pro and con in order to arrive at the solution that works best for YOU...

I hear you asking about two (mostly) divergent needs/use cases:

• The need for a new "main machine", and
• Something very portable to be used on-site, sometimes (mostly?) while traversing the Subject Property

I observe that trying to find something that works for both may end up introducing more compromises than you will find palatable. "Thin & Light" don't mix well with "Heavy Lifting" type activities (heavy applications, a lot of multi-tasking, multiple screens, lots of storage space, etc. Hence, a device that is portable enough to not be cumbersome during inspections (we never have enough arms and hands) will have a screen that will not lend itself well to "legacy" appraisal software which excels at presenting a lot of information and offering the ability to manipulate said items. It is not so much about the screen's resolution, it is more about physical screen real estate, including the need to display interface items (menus, navigation buttons, etc.) If you focus on higher and higher resolution, with your legacy software, things will likely get so small on the screen as to make items hard to read and interact with. Honestly, on a 10" screen, something like 1366 x 768 (or preferably 1280 x 800) looks great, but going up beyond, say, 1920 x 1200 starts to cause a problem with legacy software as it looks to our aging eyes and fat fingers... IF the app(s) were written with mobility in mind, things could be different, but that is not the case with what you are using...

I suggest that a great laptop who's main purpose is more "portable desktop" than "inspection device" is where you need to go with the laptop element and that you stick with an 8" device for inspections. Going to a 10.1" device obviously gains you some more screen real estate (thus easier to read) but takes away some of the prized mobility aspects offered by an 8" device, but only you can evaluate whether moving to a 10" device is worth that trade off.

If you devote your funds to the best laptop, you can still use your GN8 for the time being and switch to an 8" Windows Tablet once you really need the same OS on the inspection device. There are several examples of decent 8" Win 8.1 Tablets out now, but there will be more (with improvements) later in the year. Let me know if you need help on the 8" stuff now - if not, we can wait on that. There is plenty in this thread to indicate that I really like the Lenovo ThinkPad 10 if you want a 10" device. The 2 GB version is plenty for sketching (we test on 1 GB devices with lesser CPUs) but going with a 4 GB version just lets the device run that much better if you want/need to run your full apps "in a pinch" so I consider the additional ~$100 to be worth it for the flexibility. Your stuff would run on a 2 GB device - it would just run better/faster with 4 GB, but it will not be "super snappy" if you try to do a lot of multi-tasking or run heavy apps (Photoshop, certain bloated appraisal apps, etc.) Whether or not a 4G option is worth the extra cost remains a question that only you can answer.

Once you step beyond the "Bay Trail" class Tablets, you're entering into a higher price category and your return on the dollar may not be worth it (?) A SP3 is a wonderful device, but you're talking about more serious money. Again, it can be had for less than your stated max budget, but remember that you'll want (need IMHO) additional items - the Keyboard ($130), Accidental Drop Protection ($99 Complete Care from MS) and likely the official SP3 Dock to get the best "rip and go" experience that I read you wanting... and that gets you up to the $1,500 mark (probably over with tax, etc.) It is quite possible that for $1,500 you can obtain a better "laptop" than a SP3 would be, but you would not get the "tablet" part unless you spend a bit more, and then you're dealing with a 1.76 lb. - 2.1 lb. tablet to carry around. With the (configured) advantage of MS OneDrive, you can effortlessly "sync" the files between a Laptop and a "companion tablet" much easier than you are likely experiencing using your currents setup of Windows laptop and Android tablet.

Sorry if this is adding confusion - I mean to help, not hinder. We have not touched on devices with the Core M chip, and those may be just the ticket for you. There is some confusion I see in certain circles when discussing the pro and con of the Core M chipped devices, but overall, with the right model, they could give you "enough" horsepower while still offering the advantages of fan-less design, which is good for mobility...

Regards,


-Randall Garrett-
+Apex Software+

/end/

 

[nauthead]

RG, Thanks. I have come to the same conclusion and will likely just replace the laptop (and maybe but a windows tablet with 2-4 gigs of memory). Fortunately my old laptop still works so I have time to dig through all the options. When I look at the cost of the 2 in 1 devices and pure tablets I fall back on the question of what type of laptop (or desktop) could I buy for the same money. And $12,00 to $1,500 buys a whole lotta laptop.

 

[Randall Garrett]

RG, Thanks. I have come to the same conclusion and will likely just replace the laptop (and maybe but a windows tablet with 2-4 gigs of memory). Fortunately my old laptop still works so I have time to dig through all the options. When I look at the cost of the 2 in 1 devices and pure tablets I fall back on the question of what type of laptop (or desktop) could I buy for the same money. And $12,00 to $1,500 buys a whole lotta laptop.

Well, FWIW, I just got notice that a Lenovo ThinkPad Yoga with Core i5, 8 GB of RAM and a 128 GB SSD can be had for $649.99 here: http://www.ebay.com/itm/281545375740?rmvSB=true This link was posted by someone I trust, Brad Linder, but I have never purchased from the seller before.

Here is a link to the Lenovo page for this device: http://shop.lenovo.com/us/en/laptops/thinkpad/yoga-series/?menu-id=thinkpad_yoga which I see is $854.10 on their site. The 14" is a bit more and is heavier (duh!) FWIW, I have a ThinkPad Yoga (the "business class" version of the device seen at regular (i.e. Best Buy) stores and it was my "go to" device for a while before I passed it down to someone else here upon getting yet another shiny new object... I liked the semi-matte screen treatment and the pen performance was great, not to mention the superb ThinkPad keyboard and build quality. At this price, it might make a great "compromise" device... (?)

[Edit] Here is a (reposted) link of a review of this device done by another person whom I regard highly for her unbiased and common sense reviews. IF this device interests you, it would be worth your time to watch the video reviews further down on the page, including the "smackdown" (comparisons) with other devices, including the SP3. http://www.mobiletechreview.com/notebooks/Lenovo-ThinkPad-Yoga.htm


-Randall Garrett-
+Apex Software+

/end/

 

[Randall Garrett]

FWIW, I noticed that there are 4 Fujitsu Q584's on the Fujitsu Factory "refurb" site, with current bids ranging from $191.38 up to $288.00. The two higher cost units have the keyboard I showed in pictures earlier, while the lower cost two do not. Note that these particular units have 4 GB of RAM and a 64 GB eMMD disk storage system, not the 128 GB eMMC that the earlier units had. They do support additional storage via microSD card and I typically pay around $25 - $30 for a good, reliable SanDisk "Ultra" card at Amazon.

IF something like this interests you, and you don't mind the bidding process, I'd suggest jumping on this ASAP as I have a feeling we won't see many more of these type units. For more info on this device, refer back to my earlier posts from the May, 2014 time frame. I'm re-posting the Fujitsu e-Bay Store link here again for your convenience. The units in question are the white ones, illustrated with a white on red Fujitsu logo. http://stores.ebay.com/Fujitsu-Comp...7907&_trksid=p4634.c0.m322&afsrc=1&rmvSB=true

Hope this helps!


-Randall Garrett-
+Apex Software+

/end/