Windows Tablets For Fieldwork

[Randall Garrett]

Lenovo has announced some new devices, including the ThinkPad X1 Tablet, which is sort of like their stab at a SP4 clone. As usual, they add some unique twists - some meaningful for our market, while others seems sort of silly to me. This is a Core M device but thankfully for many of us, offers an LTE A option and Active Pen ("Stylus Pen [sic]) support. I'll be taking a look at several of their new devices later this month, but for now, here is a link to a protional video with the typical "epic musical overlay" LOL

They have also announced a refresh to their excellent ThinkPad Yoga - now called the ThinkPad X1 Yoga. While I also like the MS Surface Book which has some compellingly unique features, the ThinkPad Yoga line has been my "go to" laptop for several years and the newest versions looks to be their best effort to date. I wish they would move away from 16:9 displays, but at least they are offering different screens - regular FHD IPS LED , a high resolution variant, and even an OLED option later this coming April (?). Thankfully, the music on this promotional video is more soothing ;-)

Hope this helps!


-Randall Garrett-
+Apex Software+

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[Mike Ault]

I finally get the ThinkPad 10 and the Yoga Pro 2 updated to Windows 10 and think I am very up-to-date, now I am suffering from "mobile computing envy" again! Thanks for keeping us informed on this front Randall - I keep a fairly aggressive spam filter setting and so I miss out on all the promotions / new devices available and wouldn't know anything about them without this thread.

 

[Randall Garrett]

Congrats on getting things working well, Mike! FWIW, we'll be seeing a lot of announcements this month since CES is just a few days away. As usual, I try to filter through the hype and concentrate on the most relevant items, especially for our industry. In your case, I would definitely just sit tight on what you've got working well and IF some new device proves to offer you some tangible improvement - enough to offset the additional costs - only then would I spend much time investigating things much further. Every few months, various manufacturers announce some new device, but only sometimes do the configurations they offer amount to something that has the right combination(s) to allow for a meaningful improvement. In your case (and I suspect for others) your two machines should function just fine for the foreseeable future. I believe that you might want to consider whether you could move to a single device as a step toward more efficiency. So, IF some new device could offer you the best of both of your two devices and not introduce too much compromise, then it might be worth looking into. If you are OK with the two device scenario but find the TP10 a but sluggish, a new device with a Core M CPU and real SSD could offer a performance increase that you'd feel in the seat of the pants, so to speak. (Most appraisal software is "bloaty" and the files can get really huge - plus we appraiser types tend to want to keep more than we need on our systems.) While the Core M CPU has better raw horsepower than the Atom CPU in your tablet, the real improvement would be in the I/O and then for some, the ability to use a 4G LTE connection in the field.

Anyway, my advice for all is that unless your machine just died and you absolutely NEED something "today", I would resist the urge to make a major hardware purchase until toward the end of February so we can get through CES & MWC and see what is going to ship when and wait for a few reviews on production (not prototype) devices and available services. Fortunately, the devices out today are mostly really great so the "picking" aren't really slim... In fact, one problem is that there are so many devices out today that I see some folks buying things using the wrong factors (IMHO) As appraisers, we should know the difference between Cost and Value... That is, the cheapest one is not necessarily the best, just as the most expensive one is not always superior. I think most folks are looking for Value and want the "Best Bang for the Buck" and are reluctant to be switching devices very often. Where a lot of people seem to need some help is in determining which devices have the right combination of features/options that will allow them to readily achieve their goals. Hopefully, I can provide some info here to help folks. I think that in years past I have sometimes offered up too much info and perhaps added to the confusion, so for this round I'm going to be more selective. I'm still willing to help out by answering any specific questions, so if someone has any that are pertinent, feel free to ask away


-Randall Garrett-
+Apex Software+

/end/

 

[Chris Wagoner]

Now we are finally seeing some progress.. Thanks for those posts.. I was fishing around a little in the CES articles and found this one on WaCom.

http://www.engadget.com/2016/01/05/wacom-bamboo-smart-windows-stylus/

Is this a different type of active pen than what I am used to say on my X220t? I know the pen is an important feature. Could you shed some light in this?

Thanks for your expertise. Chris Wagoner

 

[Randall Garrett]

... Is this a different type of active pen than what I am used to say on my X220t? I know the pen is an important feature. Could you shed some light in this?
Chris Wagoner

Chris,

Summarily, your device uses the older "EMR" type Wacom pen technology where the pen primarily described in this article is the newer "AES", so this new pen would not work with your tablet. Notice, however, that the article says that they released a model for Samsung devices. I presume that they mean the EMR types, so there is every likelihood that the EMR model would work. The article was not very well written, so I can see how it could be confusing to folks who don't follow this stuff closely. FWIW, many of the newer Wacom-equipped devices are now going with the newer EMR technology (as semi-accurately mentioned in the article) and some folks like it and some (mostly longer term users) do not. That said, we're likely to see AES be the more prevalent technology for Wacom going forward. Also, the AES technology is not compatible with N-trig (i.e. on newer Surface devices.)

I could go on and on, but I'm betting that nobody really wants me to get that detailed ;-) That said, if I can answer any questions on this, please let me know and I'll be glad to take a stab at being concise, LOL

Hope this helps!


-Randall Garrett-
+Apex Software+

/end/

 

[Chris Wagoner]

yes, thanks, so it will work with the new devices coming out. I don't need a lot additional tech, but noticed some are talking about recharging. is this one a Bluetooth type pen that needs recharging, or is that another different style yet? Chris Wagoner

 

[Randall Garrett]

Chris,

Glad to help. Please understand that I'm just doing a general conversation-level description to cover the basics. I'm under the weather ATM and the meds seem to help introduce more "fat-fingering" as well as more meandering diatribes ;-)

This new Wacom pen uses a form of "static" interference (n a good way) to let the screen know where the pen is. The older type uses a type of "magnetic" interference to accomplish this. (Hence, the "S" and the "M" in their nomenclatures.) The type you have now does not require that the pen have any real "smarts" nor does it require any power other than the magnetic charge to the pen tip ("nib.") With this type, the digitizer layer added to the screen draws power - it is always "listening" for a signal to indicate where the pen is in X,Y coordinates - and this is the primary reason why the screens are a little thicker than non pen/touch-enabled and that the battery life is somewhat less than regular "dumb" screens. With the newer tech, the screen is more "passive" and the pen emits a signal (and needs battery power.) For all practical intents and purposes, the two technologies are not usable on the same devices. The type of pen/digitizer screen used by N-trig is more similar to the newer Wacom system in that the pen is powered. What most people see, though, is that the Wacom pens are skinnier (more "stick-like") and are rechargeable whereas the N-trig style (as commonly seen on newer Surface devices) are larger in diameter - more like regular pen/pencils. The advantage of the AES style (and EMR before) was that some manufacturers were able in provide a "silo" in the tablet to store the pen whereas in todays devices (given how thin they are), most N-trig devices do not have an integral pen "silo." N-trig has a skinnier pen that is rechargeable, but it has not as yet been produced for public consumption. Most people prefer the thicker pen over the "toothpick" but also want a pen silo, so nobody has yet done the "perfect" setup ;-) The debate continues to rage among pen aficionados as to which type is better, but generally speaking long time artist types still prefer the EMR style (despite the need for calibration) but most of us are easily satisfied with either the newer AES or N-trig style.

As for the Bluetooth (again, generally), this is typically used more for communicating things like "when I press this button, do that..." and not for the actual X/Y coordinate drawing operations. Like on the newer (S3 and up) Surface devices, when you click the "eraser" end, it fires up an app (i.e. OneNote) or click the button(s) on the barrel, it can perform other "modifier" operations... Again, I speak generally...

There are other technologies used n certain devices, but for the most part, they have not been particularly well received by the community at large. In any case, I feel confident that if you like what you have now, the new system will please you. On the other hand, if you have not tried out the N-trig as used on the SP4 and Surface Book, you really should try it out as it is very nice. (Note that the SP1 and SP2 used Wacom EMR and they switched to N-trig with the SP3. The SP3 is nice, but the SB4 and SB are more refined.) Since MS "bought" N-trig, they now have the money and outlet for their tech to become more mainstream and I believe it is every bit as good as Wacom's tech for what people like us would use it for. YMMV, so try them out for yourself. I have only used pre-production samples of the Wacom AES and have not even seen any of the newest Lenovo devices with this new system yet. There are some early models out, but since I lean toward the ThinkPad (business class) devices, I have not even tried the consumer stuff myself. Usually, the ThinkPad models offer stuff like V-Pro, TPM and other stuff that Enterprise types like and that I enjoy, so I am usually behind the bleeding edge when using the newest peripheral tech like this since those devices usually ship later. I don't imagine I'll be using any of them myself for at least 30 to 60 days - right now, a goodly percentage of our enterprise types are trending toward SP4s, so that is where I have to spend my time. No doubt, HP, Dell and Lenovo will be making pushes toward making a dent in the markets where MS is blazing a trail and having considerable success.

In any case, IF you can hang on, I'd sure wait to see how the new devices stack up before plopping down some money. Also, remember that Lenovo is infamous for announcing some really neat stuff but then it takes months to appear in the sales channel. Dell is usually better, but most users don't even know about their Enterprise stuff anyway. And, like before, HP actually makes some pretty nice stuff (again, I steer clear of most of the consumer pieces you see at Best Buy.) The hot space right now for most business users is the emerging class that is sorta like the "prosumer" level - a kind of "blurry line" between consumer and business class. Take a look at the HP Spectre X360, for example - it is not EliteBook class, but is considerably better built than the typical crap seen at Best Buy (both in fit & finish and in internal components, drivers, lack of bloatware, etc.) You're starting to see that in the Yoga line as well - considerably better than the IdeaPad crap seen "on the cheap isle" but just not quite up to the real ThinkPads. (I've recently seen a cheap - as is not particularly beefy nor well made IMHO - ThinkPad so I am wondering how Lenovo reconciles a potential blow to the vaunted ThinPad moniker.) In any case, we'll see over the next 30 - 90 days and we should have some excellent selections in that time frame.

Hope this helps!


-Randall Garrett-
+Apex Software+

/end/

 

[Chris Wagoner]

Yes.. Fantastic info as always. You are an invaluable resource. Sorry you are under the weather, Hope you are back to yourself soon. Does not reflect in your post. Thanks for putting that into perpective. I am hanging by a thread, but still looking. At this point I am looking for something that will outweigh the P40 Yoga, which you detailed in a previous post. I have seen some stuff on a large screen, 15.6" I believe, Toshiba convertible but have not been able to verify pen input. Still have open mind for HP or Dell to chime in here or maybe Lenovo will intorduce a "prosumer" device that will have enough features to make it work with a balance to price. Thanks for all of your help.... Will post more if I find additional info... Chris Wagoner

 

[Chris Wagoner]

So, I am taking a serious look at the HP Spectre x360 15t. Love the screen size. HP is showing active pen for this device called synaptics. Forgive my ignorance, the reviews on the unit are lite at best and not stellar. Is this a comparable pen unit to the Wacom above? Same charge scenario? Chris Wagoner

 

[Randall Garrett]

Hi Chris,

Sorry for the delay in replying. I've been a bit under the weather and am just now getting back in the groove, although my sleep schedule is still off a bit, LOL. In the past, some of my odd-hour posts were due to international travel, but lately, I am not on the road like that nearly as much... Today, I woke up at 3:00 but I'm just now getting to forum stuff...

Synaptics is most famous (infamous? LOL) for their track pads. Some years ago, they got into the screen digitizing game and began offering OEM solutions to compete with the venerable Wacom and the newly up-and-coming N-trig solutions. Other solutions also popped up but Synaptics had established connections with most PC makers due to their name recognition. OK, enough background, an onto what probably matters to you - performance, reliability, etc...

Summarily, the Synaptics screen/pen system is not as good for most users as either of the Wacom systems (EMR or AES) nor the modern N-trig solutions. They have continued to improve over the years and some find the system to be perfectly adequate. It is likely true that most of the negative comments today come from artist types (vs. "note-takers") so you should keep that in mind. I have not personally spent much time using the pen with the Spectre X360 (early model) and I do not even own the newer 15" version. I would suggest trying it out in a local retailer to see if it performs up to expectations in something like OneNote. If it works good enough for you in that app, you'll likely find it to work well in other apps that you may rely on. Personally, I like the build quality of the Spectre X360 line (and have not tried the larger version yet) but I will likely lean toward the Lenovo devices (especially the ThinkPads) and their Wacom AES pens/digitizer. This is more of a personal preference than a professional recommendation, so also keep that in mind. It is easier for most to try out the HP than the ThinkPads, so that gives HP the "upper hand" for most buyers. The Spectre line sits below HPs Elite line, so you can find it in places like Best Buy, but real ThinkPads are not so readily available in places like that. Hence, most users are left with a choice of comparing something like the Spectre line to the more pedestrian Lenovo lines. Knowing your preference for superior build items, I would think that the Spectre line trumps the lower end Lenovo lines available, but what you probably desire is either a ThinkPad or an HP Elite.

Also, you gotta ask yourself "Overall, how important to your workflow is the pen?" If it is moderate-to-high, then I'd lean more toward MS (N-trig) or Lenovo (Wacom)... (note that some manufactures use Wacom in the business class devices and other systems in their consumer grade devices.) I don't know if this is an indicator of a change coming or not. Basically, for years Wacom charged a real premium for their stuff and had limited availability in "non-standard" screen sizes and resolutions. This opened the door for others to pitch the various computer manufacturers to use an alternate solution (theirs) which would reportedly give more choices, superior performance and a lower cost. Early implementations saw some real crummy products, but they have improved substantially. Wacom, on the other hand, recognized the limitation of their old tech and had begun developing a new product, which we are just now seeing in their AES systems. During this time, N-trig came on strong and was purchased by MS and today, their product is really nice, but (for all intents and purposes) is only available in the MS Surface line of products.

I know this is not necessarily the device which might suit you the best (am just doing this as an example) but IF you are able to go to someplace like (say) Best Buy, take a look at the consumer-grade HP Spectre X2 and then compare it to the Business Class

HP Spectre X2: http://store.hp.com/us/en/ContentVi.../pc_cons/nextgen/premiumlaptops/shopspectrex2
HP Elite X2: http://store.hp.com/webapp/wcs/stor...gId=-1&catalogId=10051&eSpotName=EliteX2_1012

Basically, these two start at $799 and $899, respectively, so with this device a $100 premium basically vaults you into the business class version where your money goes into more functional (vs. fashion) items. As a small example, in the Spectre, you'll find B&O speaker branding but on the Elite you'll find screws on the back so the basic internals could be serviced... Same basic design philosophy differences are found in their notebooks, so I hope this link is of interest: http://www8.hp.com/us/en/ads/elite-products/overview.html

Of course, Lenovo has similar distinctions in their lines, but since you are mainly asking about the Spectre line, I'm not delving so deeply there. But, I would investigate Lenovo more before spending any serious money, just so you know you are betting the best solution for yourself. I'd also check out some of the newer Dell offerings if you stay in the business class devices and resist the urge to fall prey (LOL) to the lure of their newer "frameless" laptops on the consumer side, etc. While "sexy", these devices are simply not as robust (for work environments like yours) as the business class devices from these three vendors.

Oops, I notice that I have once again gotten off track, so I will close for now, Please let me know if you want more info - perhaps focused better? ;-)


-Randall Garrett-
+Apex Software+

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