Windows Tablets For Fieldwork

[Randall Garrett]

No, you don't have to, but you're missing out on a lot of functionality. Still, if that is your preference, feel free to use just touch. Of course, if you're going to do that, why not just get an inexpensive Android tablet?... The Android version of MobileSketch is more like the iOS version - it is just many times better This "rating" is not an "iOS vs. Android" thing - its just that the Android version is much better with respect to functionality, polish, etc. If you are already used to MobileSketch vs. Apex v6, perhaps that is your more efficient path for now (and besides, you said you hated Windows.) Plus, there are a plethora of really nice, lightweight Android tablets available these days.

You can compare look & feel and features below

MobileSketch for iOS:

MobileSketch for Android:

I'd have you hold out for MobileSketch for Win10, but again, you are not a fan of Windows...

Hope this helps!


-Randall Garrett-
+Apex Software+

/end/

 

[Leon Marcus]

Hi Leon,

Again, sorry for the delay in replying. The Dell is a fine unit. I prefer others that are either lighter or more powerful, but for ~$350 (assuming it is in good condition, etc.), that is hard to beat. I'm not a big fan of the pen on the older units, but they mostly work OK, especially if you get one of the latter versions. If you are coming from an iPad, you're not picky on pen stuff anyway, but I'd still like to see you be able to use it if you like it.

Regards,

-Randall Garrett-
+Apex Software+

/end/

Thanks.
Yea, if I don't have to use a pen I would rather not.
Thank you for the help!

No, you don't have to, but you're missing out on a lot of functionality. Still, if that is your preference, feel free to use just touch. Of course, if you're going to do that, why not just get an inexpensive Android tablet?... The Android version of MobileSketch is more like the iOS version - it is just many times better This "rating" is not an "iOS vs. Android" thing - its just that the Android version is much better with respect to functionality, polish, etc. If you are already used to MobileSketch vs. Apex v6, perhaps that is your more efficient path for now (and besides, you said you hated Windows.) Plus, there are a plethora of really nice, lightweight Android tablets available these days.

You can compare look & feel and features below

MobileSketch for iOS:

MobileSketch for Android:

I'd have you hold out for MobileSketch for Win10, but again, you are not a fan of Windows...

Hope this helps!


-Randall Garrett-
+Apex Software+

/end/

Thanks again.
As far as the android tablet goes, I was told that you guys are going to be phasing that out as well, along with the iPad app.

But if that's not true I can go with the android.

 

[Randall Garrett]

Hi Leon,

I want to keep this thread focused on Windows Tablet stuff vs. "polluting" it with potential side-topics. May I have Brian reach out to you again to discuss your needs? As you know, I am not a salesperson and I do not approve of efforts by my folks to push product via this forum - it is strictly for helping people with issues, tips, recommendations, etc. In your case, I feel that you have a couple of directions you could go and I simply want to make the best recommendation I can for your benefit, whether it be Android or Windows, or whatever. Basically, most of our efforts today are in Windows because that is the direction that most (but not all) of our customers are going for their own reasons. The iOS product was always pretty clunky to me and I had very little involvement with it. The Android product is better (IMHO) and the Win10 product is the best yet prom a product perspective (vs. one's view of which "platform" suits them best.) The iOS product suffered a "breaking change" due to a change in the OS. The Android product did not have that issue, but even if it did, it was just coded better and we can make changes faster and easier. So, while we're not actively coding on that product ATM, we do make necessary tweaks from time to time and I don't see that changing in the immediate future. We work with more robust/comprehensive iOS product but they ware not written for fee appraisers and I'm not sure that it makes sense to devote the resources to make it into one at this time (keeping options open.) Assuming that you used the iOS product earlier, the Android version will simply be more familiar. The current Windows product is the full Apex version 6 which runs on your desktop (and can integrate with all of the major "forms" programs) but also operates in either "touch" and/or active pen mode ("inking.) Hence, it is not an "app" but rather the "full meal deal" and thus runs best on more robust tablets. (The one you mentioned should be fine.) That said, I think you are looking for an app vs. full program, right? So, without having you wait for our forthcoming Windows 10 version ("MS10") - a product that will require the OS you don't like anyway - it simply seems to me that if you want an Apex program, the best selection for you today is the Android version, which you can run on a number of light weight, inexpensive Android tablets from 7" to 12"+... You won't be able to run your full appraisal programs on an Android Tablet (just like in iOS) but I'm thinking that that is not what you are seeking anyway. In any case, I am happy to have Brian help you with this and I will gladly participate to whatever extent you find helpful - just in another thread. If you want to continue looking at Windows Tablets, that is fine, too. It seems to me, however that you are placing a high priority on "best bang for the buck" on the device (not a bad plan IMHO), and the older Dell is not exactly optimum going forward (nasty pen, non-optimal aspect ratio IMHO, etc.) There are better ones available, albeit at a higher price, as there will always be better ones "just around the corner." So, while the Dell would work, I suspect that it is not going to deliver the experience you are looking for, and I'd hate for you to be disappointed - I know you want to get going soon and just get back to work

Regards,

-Randall Garrett-
+Apex Software+

/end/

 

[Leon Marcus]

Hi Leon,

I want to keep this thread focused on Windows Tablet stuff vs. "polluting" it with potential side-topics. May I have Brian reach out to you again to discuss your needs? As you know, I am not a salesperson and I do not approve of efforts by my folks to push product via this forum - it is strictly for helping people with issues, tips, recommendations, etc. In your case, I feel that you have a couple of directions you could go and I simply want to make the best recommendation I can for your benefit, whether it be Android or Windows, or whatever. Basically, most of our efforts today are in Windows because that is the direction that most (but not all) of our customers are going for their own reasons. The iOS product was always pretty clunky to me and I had very little involvement with it. The Android product is better (IMHO) and the Win10 product is the best yet prom a product perspective (vs. one's view of which "platform" suits them best.) The iOS product suffered a "breaking change" due to a change in the OS. The Android product did not have that issue, but even if it did, it was just coded better and we can make changes faster and easier. So, while we're not actively coding on that product ATM, we do make necessary tweaks from time to time and I don't see that changing in the immediate future. We work with more robust/comprehensive iOS product but they ware not written for fee appraisers and I'm not sure that it makes sense to devote the resources to make it into one at this time (keeping options open.) Assuming that you used the iOS product earlier, the Android version will simply be more familiar. The current Windows product is the full Apex version 6 which runs on your desktop (and can integrate with all of the major "forms" programs) but also operates in either "touch" and/or active pen mode ("inking.) Hence, it is not an "app" but rather the "full meal deal" and thus runs best on more robust tablets. (The one you mentioned should be fine.) That said, I think you are looking for an app vs. full program, right? So, without having you wait for our forthcoming Windows 10 version ("MS10") - a product that will require the OS you don't like anyway - it simply seems to me that if you want an Apex program, the best selection for you today is the Android version, which you can run on a number of light weight, inexpensive Android tablets from 7" to 12"+... You won't be able to run your full appraisal programs on an Android Tablet (just like in iOS) but I'm thinking that that is not what you are seeking anyway. In any case, I am happy to have Brian help you with this and I will gladly participate to whatever extent you find helpful - just in another thread. If you want to continue looking at Windows Tablets, that is fine, too. It seems to me, however that you are placing a high priority on "best bang for the buck" on the device (not a bad plan IMHO), and the older Dell is not exactly optimum going forward (nasty pen, non-optimal aspect ratio IMHO, etc.) There are better ones available, albeit at a higher price, as there will always be better ones "just around the corner." So, while the Dell would work, I suspect that it is not going to deliver the experience you are looking for, and I'd hate for you to be disappointed - I know you want to get going soon and just get back to work

Regards,

-Randall Garrett-
+Apex Software+

/end/

Thank you, you have been a huge help!
I did speak to one of the sales guys already so I think I am good there. He gave me a "good" price since I have the prior version of Apex. I say good because anything over $5 is expensive in my head.
I will probably end up going with the windows tablet. It gives more options as far as using my other software if I choose. Maybe I will hold out a for a really good deal on the surface pro 3....
I am not currently in a HUGE hurry since the TS program kind of works and as long as I dont let myself get to frustrated with it I will be ok until I can bring myself to spend the cash.

As of now I just have to be sure I can "pull the trigger" on buying all I need. I am super cheap so that takes time for me to do. Apex is far superior to what I am trying now so it looks like I will move on this very soon.
Thanks again for all your help.

 

[Leon Marcus]

One last thing, I was looking over I'll be information for six and just want to verify something.
The one and only thing that TS got right is the way it connects to the distal and all I have to do is swipe or hit the arrow in the direction that I want that measurement to go. Kathy apex video showed it's use with everything but the distal. Is using the disco with this version of apex tablet the same?
That ability makes a gigantic difference in time when sketching a house in the field.
From what I can tell I would assume that Apex does it pretty much the same TS but I just want to verify since I didn't see that on the video

 

[Mike Ault]

One last thing, I was looking over I'll be information for six and just want to verify something.
The one and only thing that TS got right is the way it connects to the distal and all I have to do is swipe or hit the arrow in the direction that I want that measurement to go. Kathy apex video showed it's use with everything but the distal. Is using the disco with this version of apex tablet the same?
That ability makes a gigantic difference in time when sketching a house in the field.
From what I can tell I would assume that Apex does it pretty much the same TS but I just want to verify since I didn't see that on the video

I will jump in here and say that it works very well indeed! Just make sure that you buy the right Disto. I have been using the cheap 330i model as it is Bluetooth enabled and it does everything I need it to do however it seems a little flakier than the old, non-bluetooth standby models that I have been using for years - it doesn’t handle direct sunlight as well and the occasional reboot is necessary. Once you have it paired via Bluetooth with your tablet and configured properly with Apex 6 you can simply walk around the house taking measurements & pressing the arrow key in the proper direction and the lines will be drawn automatically for you. Very cool. I name all my files before I step out of the car with the tablet (Lenovo ThinkPad 10) and little to no interaction with the virtual keyboard is necessary. I’ll probably buy an upgraded Bluetooth enabled Disto at some point that’s hopefully a little more robust and with more features however some of the keyboards on those models don’t seem to have the arrow keys for 45° angles that I find myself using quite often so research carefully before you hit the "buy button" on one of those.

 

[Leon Marcus]

Thanks,
I have been using Distos since 2000 and until recently I have had the same one since 2002. I just got an E7500i and it is GREAT!!! WELL Worth the $$$

 

[Leon Marcus]

Thanks for all the help Randall.

When you get a chance, can you expand on the use of the Dell?
From what I see it appears to be a decent competitor to the pro3....
I will just need it for apex using a disto so I don't think the pen has any influence on my decision. I will probably be using the appraisal program as well. That's it. It seems that Dell should be able to handle it.
But I do see the Surface pro seems to be #1 and probably the best choice. But even a used one is at least $700.
Will I get that much more out of $700+ tablet compared to the Dell at less than $400?

 

[Randall Garrett]

Hi Leon,

As far as Apex sketching goes, it is a relatively light program with regards to resources when compared to the likes of a "full 'forms' program" like any of the recent mainstream programs by ACI, ALM, Bradford, SFREP, etc. This is to be expected, given what all a "full forms program" does. Still, none of them are what one would describe as being particularly optimized for mobile devices. But, again, they don't usually have to be since they are written primarily (or, in some cases, only) for use on a desktop machine. Mobile devices are by their very nature, lighter in specs and that can make a difference when you try and use a "full program" in the field. That is one of the issues when using Windows Tablets - folks seem to expect their little tablet to somehow hold its own compared to their monster desktop system. Logically, they (should) know it can't, but they still try and then can get frustrated. So, as long as you don't expect your $350 device to handle the load that your desktop system does - that is, don't throw a bunch at it - you should be fine.

So, with some of the earlier tablets (including the Dells), you need to look at the amount of RAM on the device, the capacity and type of hard drive and then work within their limits (and the available screen size, etc.) If it is JUST (or even mainly) for use with Apex, you can get by on a machine with 2 GB of RAM. If you start trying to run a full desktop program (that likely struggles from time to time with 4GB anyway) and then try and run Apex in an integrated fashion through that other program, guess what is going to happen... Summarily, when a device runs out of RAM, it'll try to go to the HDD/SDD to use a sort of "virtual" RAM and when doing so, things can start to feel sluggish. Have you ever used ANY computer and said "Wow, this thing is just too fast!"?? LOL

So, does your Dell have 2 GB or more? Does it use a speedy SSD or is it using eMMC for storage. What are the screen specs - I know it is ~10", but what is the resolution/aspect ratio? What OS is it running - Windows 8.x or has it been updated to Windows 10 yet?

The Surface Pro is a fine machine and it has a superior aspect ratio. Generally speaking, the aspect ratio gets more important as the screen size diminishes. Of course, the SP3 and SP4 both have larger screens... The S3 (non-pro) has a more similar 10.8" screen but has a slower CPU and storage type than the Pro... BUT, given the price you are paying, I don't know that they are worth the premium (assuming the one you are getting is relatively new and in great shape.) I know it may sound counter-intuitive, but in many cases, if you are using it mainly for sketching in the field, and occasionally checking stuff on your "full forms" program, the newest Dell 8" may actually be a better fit due to ergonomics (easier one-handed operation), price, etc. If you are sure that nothing less than a +10" device will work for you, something like the Lenovo ThinkPad 10 is a lighter device and should be available at a similar price (I think I paid about $550? for mine with 4G LTE when new) if you can find a "certified" refurb.

In the end, since you know the seller and it seems like it could be a low-hassle way to get going, I'd give the Dell a shot. If it works out, then great. If you like it but wish you had gotten a faster, or lighter (or whatever) device, you'd probably be able to recoup your purchase price easily and move upward, or whatever

Finally, remember that these are just MY thoughts, based on how I look at things. True, I have input from a very wide array of appraiser types, but what really matters is what works for YOU. In any case, you are to be congratulated for reaching out to your peers and trying to make the most informed decision based on input from others. We do this with other "market data" in our profession, so this approach seems logical for anyone with the appraiser gene, but I am surprised when some folks just rely on advertising vs. peer/user input. That is like getting your comps from listing info vs. confirmed sales data IMHO.

Hope this helps!

-Randall Garrett-
+Apex Software+

/end/

 

[Leon Marcus]

Thanks again Randall!

That helps a lot. As far as what I get, I will only go with a minimum of i5, 4GB Ram and SSD Drive with windows 8 or 10 (As of now I dont care 8 or 10). The Dell has an i5, 4GB Ram and 120SSd. But I am looking into a SP3 anyway. If I am going to spend $$ I want to be sure what I get is not obsolete quickly so the mid-upper end of the tablets will provide a longer useful life for me.
Thanks for all your help.