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- Certified Residential Appraiser
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- Louisiana
A hands on review of a Surface (not pro) 3 running SFREP and Apex v6:
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Windows Tablets For Fieldwork
- Thread starter brbkr
- Start date
Randall Garrett
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- Mar 6, 2004
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- Texas
Thanks for posting the video, NS. We'd also like to say how much we appreciate SFREP for making a video featuring an Apex product. As much as we appreciate it, I can see that we need to provide folks with better videos showing the advantages of how Apex is used properly with a tablet. What was shown was very basic and to me makes it look more complicated, very restrictive and/or clunky to use a tablet for field data collection, and drawing in specific. Again, we really appreciate others doing videos, and the video serves to remind me how we are remiss in not producing our own and sharing them with end users and our valued partners, as well. I intend to improve on that 
I've been out of the country for the past 2+ weeks but now that I'm back, I'll put some effort into getting our guys to produce something and then get it out. Unless someone specifically asks for it I will not post links to something here that is built to be marketing material for Apex products. At best (worst? LOL), I might start a new thread on Apex videos and post a link to it here, but there is no room in this thread for marketing stuff IMHO.
I have no problem posting something that is instructive on how to do something, etc. and which uses our products as the illustrative tool, but I draw the line when the materials are geared toward a "buy me now" type reaction. I think long time readers know what I mean. Anyway, I'm sure "my folks" will want to product some marketing things, so I will take the opportunity to piece something together which shows how a Windows tablet can be used effectively. I'll likely show a range of things using examples from "companion" type devices to more "desktop replacement" class devices so folks can better choose which type device to concentrate on. Suggestions from the readers here on either things they have learned and/or things they specifically want me to cover are much appreciated so I can cover what you want to see and get it done in a more timely manner.
-Randall Garrett-
+Apex Software+
/end/
I've been out of the country for the past 2+ weeks but now that I'm back, I'll put some effort into getting our guys to produce something and then get it out. Unless someone specifically asks for it I will not post links to something here that is built to be marketing material for Apex products. At best (worst? LOL), I might start a new thread on Apex videos and post a link to it here, but there is no room in this thread for marketing stuff IMHO.
I have no problem posting something that is instructive on how to do something, etc. and which uses our products as the illustrative tool, but I draw the line when the materials are geared toward a "buy me now" type reaction. I think long time readers know what I mean. Anyway, I'm sure "my folks" will want to product some marketing things, so I will take the opportunity to piece something together which shows how a Windows tablet can be used effectively. I'll likely show a range of things using examples from "companion" type devices to more "desktop replacement" class devices so folks can better choose which type device to concentrate on. Suggestions from the readers here on either things they have learned and/or things they specifically want me to cover are much appreciated so I can cover what you want to see and get it done in a more timely manner.
-Randall Garrett-
+Apex Software+
/end/
Randall Garrett
Senior Member
- Joined
- Mar 6, 2004
- Professional Status
- IT Professional-Appraisal Related
- State
- Texas
Sorry for the lack of info lately - I was out of the country for a bit - mainly for pleasure, but managed to do a little business
I noted that Lisa Gade has put up one of her usual quality reviews (written + embedded video) on the new Lenovo X1 Tablet at the link below. I have not spent any quality time with an X1 Tablet - I used one under controlled circumstances for maybe 10 minutes and was not even able to load my own software on it (neither our sketchers nor my usual suite of test apps) so I'll have to wait a bit before I can give you my thoughts on it. I gather, however, from reading Lisa's review that it preforms about like what you'd expect a Core M to perform but the current prices put the X1 Tablet very close to a SP4 with a Core i5... (Originally, the X1 Tablet was supposed to be a bit less expensive than the SP4. That may eventually be the case, but we'll have to see...) Lenovo does, however offer modules which add to the usefulness of the X1 Tablet (extended battery, 3D camera, etc.) but I think that (at least for now), the SP4 offers more bang for the buck for most potential appraisal users. Again, I'll have to spend some quality time with the X1 Tablet and perhaps some of the accessories to make a more informed analysis. I am told that it'll be close to the middle of June before I see an X1 Tablet on my desk, so I'll keep my eyes out for any other respectable reviews.
Link to article with embedded video review: http://www.mobiletechreview.com/notebooks/Lenovo-ThinkPad-X1-Tablet.htm
Hope this helps!
-Randall Garrett-
+Apex Software+
/end/
I noted that Lisa Gade has put up one of her usual quality reviews (written + embedded video) on the new Lenovo X1 Tablet at the link below. I have not spent any quality time with an X1 Tablet - I used one under controlled circumstances for maybe 10 minutes and was not even able to load my own software on it (neither our sketchers nor my usual suite of test apps) so I'll have to wait a bit before I can give you my thoughts on it. I gather, however, from reading Lisa's review that it preforms about like what you'd expect a Core M to perform but the current prices put the X1 Tablet very close to a SP4 with a Core i5... (Originally, the X1 Tablet was supposed to be a bit less expensive than the SP4. That may eventually be the case, but we'll have to see...) Lenovo does, however offer modules which add to the usefulness of the X1 Tablet (extended battery, 3D camera, etc.) but I think that (at least for now), the SP4 offers more bang for the buck for most potential appraisal users. Again, I'll have to spend some quality time with the X1 Tablet and perhaps some of the accessories to make a more informed analysis. I am told that it'll be close to the middle of June before I see an X1 Tablet on my desk, so I'll keep my eyes out for any other respectable reviews.
Link to article with embedded video review: http://www.mobiletechreview.com/notebooks/Lenovo-ThinkPad-X1-Tablet.htm
Hope this helps!
-Randall Garrett-
+Apex Software+
/end/
Randall Garrett
Senior Member
- Joined
- Mar 6, 2004
- Professional Status
- IT Professional-Appraisal Related
- State
- Texas
FWIW, yesterday MS started offering a "Microsoft Surface Membership" plan which basically offers (18, 24 or 30) monthly payments, service, upgrades, free training, etc. The offer is to companies vs. individuals per se, but they specifically mention individual business owners which pretty much fits in well with most readers here, I think. Like most financing plans, the cost is more than it would be with an outright, up-front purchase, but we'd expect that. The offer includes Surface 3, Surface Pro 4 and Surface book in all currently offered configurations:
Here is a link to their page where you can go through various configurations to get prices, etc.. Remember to scroll down to about mid-way down where it says:
Which Surface device is right for your business? and each device type is shown below. Just click on the "Get started > link under the device type you are interested in.
http://www.microsoftstore.com/store/msusa/html/pbpage.TaaS#
Hope this helps!
-Randall Garrett-
+Apex Software+
/end/
- Surface 3 - $32/mo. to $59/mo. ($49 x 24 mo. for 4GB RAM, 128 GB storage w/ 4G LTE)
- Surface Pro 4 - $52/mo. to $138/mo. ($80 x 24 mo. for typical i5, 8GB RAM, 256 GB SSD)
- Surface Book - $80/mo. to - $220/mo ($101 x 24 mo. for typical i5, 8 GB RAM, 256 GB SSD, non dGPU)
Here is a link to their page where you can go through various configurations to get prices, etc.. Remember to scroll down to about mid-way down where it says:
Which Surface device is right for your business? and each device type is shown below. Just click on the "Get started > link under the device type you are interested in.
http://www.microsoftstore.com/store/msusa/html/pbpage.TaaS#
Hope this helps!
-Randall Garrett-
+Apex Software+
/end/
Randall Garrett
Senior Member
- Joined
- Mar 6, 2004
- Professional Status
- IT Professional-Appraisal Related
- State
- Texas
MS is offering $50 - $150 off Surface Pro's and is throwing in a free Surface Dock ($199) through June 20, 2016 (tomorrow). Models range from
Casual users or those who would use one as a secondary, "companion" device would lean toward the $849 model but most would find the $899 model the better buy.
Link to Store: https://www.microsoftstore.com/store/msusa/en_US/pdp/Surface-Pro-4/productID.325711500?icid=SalePage_gm_tds_ModD_SP4Dock&tduid=(df7e7f60343a4d3bfcdb630a628c475f)(259740)(2542549)(d_wp)()
---------------------------------- [Edit] ----------------------------------
In my own tests I have found that the Core M3 model did not deliver the significantly better battery life that I thought it should based on paper specs when compared to the Core i5 models. The real world performance was not that much less for most tasks, either, but for the mere $50 increase in cost I think you'd be better off with the highlighted model. Of course, the model with double the RAM and double the storage is a better desktop replacement device for most since "desktop duty" typically involves more multi-tasking and more "heavy lifting", but at $300 more, I'm not so sure that it is worth it for folks who already have a sufficient desktop device and just want to add a mobile component that lets them run their full suite of appraisal apps when away from their desk, be it at the Subject Property or at a remote location (as in a "laptop" type scenario.) Also, FWIW, the Surface Dock provides power, 4 USB 3.0 ports, 2 mini Display Port connections (for monitors), a Gigabit Ethernet port and a 1/8th inch/3.4mm combo headphone/mic connection. Here is a link to that particular accessory: https://www.microsoftstore.com/store/msusa/en_US/pdp/Microsoft-Surface-Dock/productID.325725200
As I've stated before, it is my belief that most mobile appraisers would find the Core i7 models to be overkill unless you were using it as a "desktop replacement" class device and planned on doing some specialized "heavy lifting." Both the Core i5 and Core i7 are a nice chips but the architecture of the i7 is geared for stuff like video rendering and items which require significant multithreading whereas the Core i5 is easily sufficient for general office applications. The "overkill" nature of the Core i7 in devices like the Surface line (and the vast majority of Ultrabook class laptops) is largely due to the fact that this class of device is not using the same Core i5/Core i7 chip found in most desktops - it is using a "mobile" variant, tailored for energy savings, so moving to a mobile Core i7 is especially questionable if you are mainly running appraisal programs and other general office applications. Most gamers even prefer to go with a Core i5 over a Core i7 because most of the applications that matter to them (games), do not take advantage of multi-threading, etc. Hence, they prefer to get beefy Core i5s and invest the savings into other areas that DO matter to them (RAM, fast video card, trick monitors, etc.) So, in this regard, I recommend a Core i5 over a Core i7 for most of you and urge folks to take the savings and put them into RAM, storage, Accidental Drop Protection policies, etc.
-------------------------------- [End Edit] --------------------------------
Hope this helps!
-Randall Garrett-
+Apex Software+
/end/
- $849 : Core M3, 4GB RAM, 128 GB Storage - save $249 ($50 + $199)
- $899 : Core i5, 4GB RAM, 128 GB Storage - save $299 ($100 + $199)
- $1199 : Core i5, 8GB RAM, 256 GB Storage - save $299 ($100 + $199)
- $1449 : Core i7, 8GB RAM, 256 GB Storage - save $349 ($150 + $199)
- $1649 : Core i7, 16GB RAM, 256 GB Storage - save $349 ($150 + $199)
Casual users or those who would use one as a secondary, "companion" device would lean toward the $849 model but most would find the $899 model the better buy.
Link to Store: https://www.microsoftstore.com/store/msusa/en_US/pdp/Surface-Pro-4/productID.325711500?icid=SalePage_gm_tds_ModD_SP4Dock&tduid=(df7e7f60343a4d3bfcdb630a628c475f)(259740)(2542549)(d_wp)()
---------------------------------- [Edit] ----------------------------------
In my own tests I have found that the Core M3 model did not deliver the significantly better battery life that I thought it should based on paper specs when compared to the Core i5 models. The real world performance was not that much less for most tasks, either, but for the mere $50 increase in cost I think you'd be better off with the highlighted model. Of course, the model with double the RAM and double the storage is a better desktop replacement device for most since "desktop duty" typically involves more multi-tasking and more "heavy lifting", but at $300 more, I'm not so sure that it is worth it for folks who already have a sufficient desktop device and just want to add a mobile component that lets them run their full suite of appraisal apps when away from their desk, be it at the Subject Property or at a remote location (as in a "laptop" type scenario.) Also, FWIW, the Surface Dock provides power, 4 USB 3.0 ports, 2 mini Display Port connections (for monitors), a Gigabit Ethernet port and a 1/8th inch/3.4mm combo headphone/mic connection. Here is a link to that particular accessory: https://www.microsoftstore.com/store/msusa/en_US/pdp/Microsoft-Surface-Dock/productID.325725200
As I've stated before, it is my belief that most mobile appraisers would find the Core i7 models to be overkill unless you were using it as a "desktop replacement" class device and planned on doing some specialized "heavy lifting." Both the Core i5 and Core i7 are a nice chips but the architecture of the i7 is geared for stuff like video rendering and items which require significant multithreading whereas the Core i5 is easily sufficient for general office applications. The "overkill" nature of the Core i7 in devices like the Surface line (and the vast majority of Ultrabook class laptops) is largely due to the fact that this class of device is not using the same Core i5/Core i7 chip found in most desktops - it is using a "mobile" variant, tailored for energy savings, so moving to a mobile Core i7 is especially questionable if you are mainly running appraisal programs and other general office applications. Most gamers even prefer to go with a Core i5 over a Core i7 because most of the applications that matter to them (games), do not take advantage of multi-threading, etc. Hence, they prefer to get beefy Core i5s and invest the savings into other areas that DO matter to them (RAM, fast video card, trick monitors, etc.) So, in this regard, I recommend a Core i5 over a Core i7 for most of you and urge folks to take the savings and put them into RAM, storage, Accidental Drop Protection policies, etc.
-------------------------------- [End Edit] --------------------------------
Hope this helps!
-Randall Garrett-
+Apex Software+
/end/
Last edited:
ucbruin
Elite Member
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- Mar 11, 2014
- Professional Status
- Certified Residential Appraiser
- State
- Massachusetts
Randall,
You are a wonderful source of info, especially to a technophobe such as myself....
Thanks for being generous with your time and knowledge....
Happy Father's Day to you (I know I'm assuming)
Randall Garrett
Senior Member
- Joined
- Mar 6, 2004
- Professional Status
- IT Professional-Appraisal Related
- State
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Glad to be of help! Thanks, also for the Father's Day sentiments. And yes, I am a father
Note that I added an Edited section above, containing come commentary on why I highlighted the Core i5 model, etc.
Regards,
-Randall Garrett-
+Apex Software+
/end/
Note that I added an Edited section above, containing come commentary on why I highlighted the Core i5 model, etc.
Regards,
-Randall Garrett-
+Apex Software+
/end/
Randall Garrett
Senior Member
- Joined
- Mar 6, 2004
- Professional Status
- IT Professional-Appraisal Related
- State
- Texas
Hey folks, I almost, sorta missed another sale. Through July 3rd, you can get a Surface 3 (10.8" screen) with 128 GB eMMC storage and 4 GB of RAM for $499. Through today (June 20, 2016), they are throwing in the $199 Docking Station! That offer goes away at the end of business today, but the price for the device remains through the close of business on July 3rd. They have similar "$100 off" savings on the 2 GB models, but I do not recommend a device with only 2 GB of memory unless you are not going to try multi-tasking several apps - especially non-optimized programs like most desktop appraisal suites. You can hit the link below to see the prices. Unfortunately the 4GB model with 4G LTE is not offered at a discount, only the 2 GB model is...
The $100 off for the device itself (with a free screen protector, just not the one I would recommend) is a good enough price, but them throwing in the $199 Docking Station for free is really good. I suppose one could go on-line and order it and still get the full deal tonight...
https://www.microsoftstore.com/store/msusa/en_US/pdp/Surface-3/productID.314885500
Sorry I missed this earlier, folks.
-Randall Garrett-
+Apex Software+
PS - I happen to think that the SP 4 is a better device for most appraisers, but it is more money. The S3 is smaller, lighter, etc. and works well enough for lightweight "companion" duty. Remember to get the Accidental Drop Protection and an anti-reflective screen protector. A good case with strap is handy, too
/end/
The $100 off for the device itself (with a free screen protector, just not the one I would recommend) is a good enough price, but them throwing in the $199 Docking Station for free is really good. I suppose one could go on-line and order it and still get the full deal tonight...
https://www.microsoftstore.com/store/msusa/en_US/pdp/Surface-3/productID.314885500
Sorry I missed this earlier, folks.
-Randall Garrett-
+Apex Software+
PS - I happen to think that the SP 4 is a better device for most appraisers, but it is more money. The S3 is smaller, lighter, etc. and works well enough for lightweight "companion" duty. Remember to get the Accidental Drop Protection and an anti-reflective screen protector. A good case with strap is handy, too
/end/
JTip
Elite Member
- Joined
- Oct 12, 2004
- Professional Status
- Certified Residential Appraiser
- State
- Pennsylvania
Adorama offered the HP x360 Spectre 2in1 (HP factory referb) with an i7(6500), QHD touch, 8G ram, 256 SSD, W10 for under $700 delivered/no tax about a month ago. That's a $1200 machine.....I should have bought two....awesome machine...