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Windows Tablets For Fieldwork

KCR,

FWIW, I was notified today that the Modern Mix Software I mentioned yesterday went came out of Beta today. The program is $5 and there is a free trial download (links to CNN.com site.) Being a developer type, I do not use either Start 8 nor Modern Mix on my machines at work, but I do have them both installed on one of my home machines. I absolutely need to keep my computers at work as "pure" as I can, but my personal home machines can be a little different. My wife uses one of them for her stuff and so far she like Start 8 and has little-to-no cause to use Modern Mix. Neither get in my way, so I don't mind them....

http://www.stardock.com/products/modernmix/

I don't know how useful/appropriate Start 8 would be on your Q550 - I believe it is mainly for desktop users, but YMMV.


Hope this helps!


-Randall Garrett-
..Apex Software..

/end/
 
I'm still on the fence between the Helix and the Motion F5.


The Helix is new, and is about $1,500 cheaper. I'm afraid of spending $3,000 (mid-grade version) for the Motion and as you know technology changes greatly year to year.

It takes 2-3 weeks for delivery, and the Helix will be out late April.

The one good thing that I like about the Motion is the icon that moves with the pointer for free hand writing. The Windows tablet has that pop up screen that takes up half the screen and then leaves the screen that you were working on half the size also. This irritates me.



You can buy a base model Motion FT for +-$2,100 with the I3 processor with 64 GB and it does not have the touch screen option. In your opinion, do you think the performance would be adequate for appraising (keeping in mind that you would finish the report at your desktop.)?

If I read it right, the base model can still access the internet via your cell phone by tethering. This is a must.
 
NC A,

How anxious are you to pull the trigger? I ask for a few reasons...

First, a disclosure: I am under NDA with Motion and have been for many years. They are headquartered about 80 miles from us ("just up the road a ways" in TX terms) and we are in and out of there with some regularity. I am due for another trip there in April, and we'll be discussing their roadmap for the next products.

Also, may I suggest you take advantage of a possible loaner F5 if it is available? There's no better way to learn more about the device than to try it yourself, in your environment for a few days...

Now, I understand that you are anxious to "get on with it", having gone through a few experiments with less that totally satisfying results. The sooner you get the device that suits you best, the sooner you can get started using it to make money (be more efficient, or whatever.). I just know that devices with newer chips are not far off. Even if you do not get the newest revision, just the release of a new model has a way of lowering "last year's" model. Buying a Motion is not like buying a "regular" tablet - it is the type of tool that may last you a long time vs. "lesser" devices. Even with the Helix, you're already considering a device that most of the readers here may feel is "too much gun for the hunt." Do you really need the ruggedness that the Motion brings to the party, or is it the handle, or something else? Make no mistake, I like the F5t - it is an awesome machine. I just want to help you make the right decision for YOU.

You've mentioned the "icon that floats with the cursor" a few times. If this item is what I think it is, this is not something unique to Motion - it is something in Windows. If you're not seeing this in your other compliant devices before (Surface Pro, Samsung 700T), it is likely the fault of the software you are using, not the device. Not all software is written properly to use "Ink" and if its not, the floating icon won't show up in that software just by switching to the Motion. If I have misread your meaning, my apologies - set me back on track and I'll try to address that concern.

The F5T is a manly device and if that's what you want, by all means get it. The Helix is a more "executive" machine that is not as fragile as (say) the Samsung 700T that disappointed you. The F5T is not as sexy nor will a Core i3 be as fast as the baseline Helix. But, maybe you don't need the speed and prize rugged dependability more (?). I just have to wonder if you're trying to "go slim" on an F5T to help mitigate the cost and whether it will satisfy you.

On Motions, I strongly recommend getting their "VAD" (View Anywhere Display") option. That's the Hydis screen which really helps in outdoor conditions. If you read the review links I provided, they discuss this feature. Their AFFS+ tech is also helpful (http://www.motioncomputing.com/choose/spec_display_x5.htm).

I've never had a problem "tethering" my phone for 3G/4G but our Enterprise customers seem to prefer ordering with the built-in GOBI radios configured for their particular carrier. Except for the iPads that I rotate through, I don't get my other devices with built-in 3G/4G - I just tether my phone. I envision my Helix as a more substantial "daily driver main device" so mine is ordered with wireless broadband. Tethering is a pretty big hit to most cell phones' relatively anemic capacity battery. YMMV, and just food for thought.

Anyway, I was thinking that if you can wait for my Helix to arrive, my "review" might help you make a better choice. I should also have more concrete info on the next Motion(s) - just not sure how much detail I can share until I ask. I will not violate their NDA, but there's nothing stopping me from sharing my thoughts on whether a wait period might be prudent...

[Edit] Found an old post in my thread on Outdoor Screen Technology containing a link to a video done by an appraiser using an older F5. Thought you might appreciate seeing one in action by an actual appraiser ("Valuer" in his work environment.). Nite my disclaimer statement. http://appraisersforum.com/showpost.php?p=2103470&postcount=23

And here is another link to a Motion Partner/reseller explaining why the F5 (V at the time) is his main device. In the video, he also shows some of the mounts, cases, straps, etc. Brett s a reseller, but he also actually uses this device. Worth a watch as he articulates a lot of things real "field workers" should be considering rather than how well a device tweets or streams videos...

http://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=relmfu&v=xEsIS4Iyo5Q


Hoping this helps!


-Randall Garrett-
*Apex Software*

/end/
 
Last edited:
Randall Garrett said:
NC A,

You've mentioned the "icon that floats with the cursor" a few times. If this item is what I think it is, this is not something unique to Motion - it is something in Windows. If you're not seeing this in your other compliant devices before (Surface Pro, Samsung 700T), it is likely the fault of the software you are using, wireless broadband. Tethering is a pretty big hit to most cell phones' relatively anemic capacity battery. YMMV, and just food for thought.
Click to expand...


That is what I'm confused about. Is it a Windows 7 feature, or a Motion feature or a something else? I think you are right, Windows feature.

It shows up here:
[url]http://www.groupmobile.com/product.asp/sku=3392/dept_id=/mf_id=62/Motion+F5+Semi+Rugged+Tablet+PC.html[/URL]


Sorry... but here too around the .50-1 min. mark [url]http://help.alamode.com/videos/appraiser/davinci/DavinciTablet/?ClickID=TOTAL-for-Windows-Tablet-PC&ClickThruEmail=&ClickThruCustomerNumber=0[/URL]


Where are the APP's :laugh:
 
NC A,

From what I see in the video, what you describe is a feature in Windows. The basics have been there since the Tablet PC Edition of Windows XP - and were just refined in later versions (Vista , Win 7, and now Win 8.) With "Inking", the application has to be written to use it the way I believe you are envisioning. Otherwise, the user would need to use ("call up") the TIP (Tablet Input Panel.) The TIP has evolved over the years and mostly what is shown in the videos is the one in Windows 7.

I think what you're looking for is the ability to Ink in form fields (?) and I do not believe your software has enabled that at present. So, in order to use Ink, you have to invoke the "virtual keyboard" in "Ink mode" and what is bothering you (?) is the amount of screen space it takes up. The tablets you've tried recently have screens that have a 16:9 aspect ratio, so it takes up a larger percentage of the screen than a 16:10 (mostly seen in Android tablets) or a 4:3 aspect ratio like what the F5t has. So, going with the F5t would mean it would not hide so much of the main work application ("form" or whatever.)

Eventually, one might figure that your app developer would strive to mitigate or even eliminate the need to pull up the keyboard panel altogether and just code the fields to use a smaller TIP (standard or custom made.) Back in 2006, we introduced the ability to ink lines and write in the dimensions so the user would not need to use the keyboard or TIP and thus obscure the drawing area. You see this same behavior exhibited on other sketch programs today and I think what you're after is to somehow use the power of the ink recognition built-into Windows on smaller fields and not have to pull up the keyboard-sized Ink panel, right? If so, that would take some custom code from your app developer.

I don't have any inside info, influence, etc. on that app, but I'd point out that my understanding is that the initial release is targeting desktop use at this time, not tablets. I further understand from reading posts by the app developer that they intend to extend the program to have more mobile-focused features in the near future. So, I'd not spend a bunch of money on something that did not actually "cure" this item - that is, a different or more expensive computer does not address the issue (assuming I read you correctly about that.) The issue is rooted in the application harnessing the Ink technology in a different way than it is today - and I remind everyone that that particular program is not even officially "out" in finished/retail form yet - it's just a preview of sorts. I think that is part of it being a "Labs" thing vs. sold at retail. Again, I don't think that custom code for inking, tablets, etc. is the primary target for them at this point in time. As a developer myself, it seems reasonable that they would be focusing on basic items like stability and core features necessary for report analysis, production and delivery. Once they reach a comfortable spot, I would imagine they would start looking at mobile optimizations (for speed on a mobile CPU, touch and pen items, etc.)

With regard toward what tablet works best for you, I would be looking at the other factor - size, weight, cost, performance, reliability and "form factor." As long as you have the basics satisfied, with rare exception any Windows 8 tablet you select will perform identically with respect to how it works with a pen. Of course an I7 should outperform an i3, and in order to get inking, the tablet has to support it in the first place ;-)


Hope this helps!


-Randall Garrett-
*Apex Software*

/end/
 
Last edited:
Randall Garrett said:
NC A,



I think what you're looking for is the ability to Ink in form fields (?) and I do not believe your software has enabled that at present. So, in order to use Ink, you have to invoke the "virtual keyboard" in "Ink mode" and what is bothering you (?) is the amount of screen space it takes up. The tablets you've tried recently have screens that have a 16:9 aspect ratio, so it takes up a larger percentage of the screen than a 16:10 (mostly seen in Android tablets) or a 4:3 aspect ratio like what the F5t has. So, going with the F5t would mean it would not hide so much of the main work application ("form" or whatever.)



-Randall Garrett-
*Apex Software*

/end/
Click to expand...

You da man.

Yes, Inking is the term.

That is why I have paint pinned to my task bar. I can "ink" with the pen and then minimize it.


With the full version of my appraising software on my tablet, I can have the sketch opened, paint opened, and the improvement section open all at once. That way, when I come to a item while sketching, I just simply go to the taskbar, open paint make a note and then go back to sketching.



Total mobile has a section that you can "ink" in, but m2:, Microsoft and their virtual keyboard is the problem.

As I said in my last post, I want to make as few laps in the fastest time.

For example, if I'm measuring the exterior of the home, and I want to make a note: 1. close out of the sketch. 2. I have to bring up the virtual keyboard 3. Close the keyboard. 3. Maximize the software screen.

Imagine doing that 5-10 times during the inspection.



As for the tablet. Will probably go with the Helix, but I still have the FT motion on my mind. I wonder if Motion when they do go with Windows 8, will have that irritating virtual keyboard? I guess they will due to it being a Microsoft issue (Since you know Motion reps I would see if they can make a app for that or find some way to incorporate the old way.)
 
NC A,

I had a fairly detailed reply drafted for your items, but we're experiencing a power outage in my county ATM, so I am replying via mobile connection. Please accept this summary reply in the interim. I'll go into more of the detail that you need once my situation improves.

Summarily, I think my prior posts failed to convey that I believe the main issue you are frustrated with is rooted in your software not being a Tablet app (yet), not Windows 8 per se, nor the device itself. The Tablet Input Panel is still (buried) in Windows 8 - it's similar to the one you see in the Windows 7 videos on the Motion, except improved. We saw it in the "preview" versions of Windows 8 but upon formal consumer release, it does not automatically pop up like it could in Windows 7. It must be specifically "called." So, it seems that the new version of your software is simply not calling it and is pulling up the virtual keyboard panel (which also has text recognition, perhaps adding to the confusion for end users.) Basically, your software (T3013?) simply has not been tweaked for tablets yet. They've said, however, that they intend to, so hopefully the issues you are describing and the work-arounds are a temporary thing.

I'll look into detailing some specific steps which may help, and add them to a future post.


Regards,


-Randall Garrett-
..Apex Software..

PS - You realize that you can simply "swipe" between running programs, right? You don't have to tap on the icons pinned to the task bar...

/end/
 
FWIW, I got notice today that the first wave of Lenovo Helix shipments are in transit. One overseas customer reported receiving theirs, a maxed out variant. I have not received my shipment notice nor are the US order pages live yet. For whatever reason, apparently certain educational institution links are live and if history is any gauge, the prediction is that we'll see live retail availability by mid-April. I will update you when I have some concrete information.


Regards,


-Randall Garrett-
*Apex Software*

/end/
 
Great.


When I get mine, I'll check out the "swipe" feature, instead of using the "pinned" items on my task bar.

For mobile appraising, running the full appraisal program is the only way to go.


For fun, I got a cheapo Samsung tablet today that runs the Andriod OS without the inking feature.....and downloaded the Wintotal App. Ha!!! needless to say that my 8 year old son just got a tablet. At least someone was happy. Going to download the phoenix App and try that out.





When you get your Helix, see if you can dig up the pen feature of the Motion Tablet (Win 7) or if you find something out there that is similar. I hate the Win 8 keyboard!!! Is there a file from Win7 that I can download to Win 8?



RG from your prior post:
"From what I see in the video, what you describe is a feature in Windows. The basics have been there since the Tablet PC Edition of Windows XP - and were just refined in later versions (Vista , Win 7, and now Win 8.) With "Inking", the application has to be written to use it the way I believe you are envisioning. Otherwise, the user would need to use ("call up") the TIP (Tablet Input Panel.) The TIP has evolved over the years and mostly what is shown in the videos is the one in Windows 7."

:beer:
 
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