Windows Tablets For Fieldwork

[Randall Garrett]

Hey Joe!

Take a look at the size, weight, battery life, etc. on the three devices I showed earlier. You'll find similar weight, battery life, etc there . What you won't get is the approx. 600 nit booted screen found on the TF201 and TF700. Turn off the boost on your TF201 and it'll be at around 400 nits, the same as the Win 8 tablets and give you a good idea if they might work for you. Note that the Win 8 tablets I mentioned have slightly better bonding than your TF201, so they will seem marginally better than the TF at similar output.

The Dell currently has a more comprehensive set of case/strap type accessories, but I'd lay odds that you'd still like the ThinkPad Tablet 2 better. It measures just slightly less weight than your ASUS, but it seems closer to half the weight... And, it's not slick, but grippy, too . Oh, and the WiFi and GPS actually work, too ;-) (TF201 "insider"joke, folks)

On the software, we should have an update soon. Just tweaks, but good ones... Wayne has been deep into our Win 8 CAD program (already MS certified compatible) and you know that the Android version was the core of MSA... (Hint, hint). We also have another product for W7 & W8 about to hit the streets here. Decisions, decisions...

I'll send out something next week to you guys on this. If not, well... bug Robert ;-). He's out this week doing a Mobile Technology thing and lolly gagging about the West Coast. He needs something to get him back on the stick...


-Randall Garrett-
*Apex Software*

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[Summer]

I am in the process of buying Surface Pro tablets for the office. However we just converted to Microsoft 365 for the office and all appraisers. ACI isn't compatible with a lot of it. Very sad. I am hoping that they will move in this direction quickly. They never got there with an IPad app though so not feeling very hopeful at the moment. Apex doesn't work on the tablet yet.

 

[2008 KC Royals]

I was considering one of the Motion F5 or C5 computers before I found a good deal on a Fujitsu Q550 (still not worth it). One of the reasons I was looking at them is they can go pretty cheap on ebay.
Not Win8 but still pretty current.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Motion-F5v-...71135660155?pt=US_Tablets&hash=item3f20f1d87b

Will be selling the Q550 soon. Have tweaked it to the point that it is useable but it is in need of an adequate video driver which Intel failed to deliver. Will have to play with Win8 on a computer that it was meant to run on but so far I don't like it. Seems like the OS is actually pretty great but the UI is terrible. I get what they were trying to do but it is not intuitive and it seems like a lot of the changes are answers to questions that nobody asked.

The Q550 is the 5th tablet I have had since I put the TC1100 into semi-retirement. None have lasted more than three weeks and each make me want to dust off the HP and upgrade it with 2 Gb ram, a SSD and a super light install of XP. Its still the best Windows tablet ever IMO.

 

[Randall Garrett]

Summer,

Apex v5 does work on Tablets - it just sucks on them ;-). Seriously, it was designed as a desktop system and never intended for touch or pen - we had MobileSketch for Touch devices back, what, 7 -10 years ago? Then came Nexus for active pen tablets in 2005 or 2006.

Now, Apex v6 works on both Tablets and desktop systems. We just have not released it in North America yet. It uses a more modern version of the engine that powered the first Tablet sketch program - Nexus. And it is already certified by MS as Win 7 and Win 8 compatible. That is a requirement for our Enterprise customers. We don't talk about that much since most fee appraisers don't seem to care about that stuff - just noting it here so you know it's not a slip-shod program...

I want to tweak it some more for US fee appraiser needs, otherwise it would already be out - it already is in other markets. Now, how long before ACI picks it up? Can't say - Apex v5 was out for quite a while before they finally integrated it. I think they are more focused on their own product or other things right now and I don't deal with "sales" type things or those type of business items unless it involves technical requirements, features and the like. I may have to "sign off" on a contract, but it would have already gone through Business Development stuff first. I just detest that part of being President and CEO, so I have other weirdo's who actually like that sort of thing do that stuff ;-)

Have you considered looking for a different "forms" program? We don't recommend one company over another, but I can appreciate when your main software causes you problems (I was an appraiser myself for ~20 yrs.) and as a geek, I also appreciate new technology being deployed in new software. As I recall, back in the day we were all switching programs now and then for the same reasons - getting more work done NOW...


Regards,


-Randall Garrett-
*Apex asoftware*

/end/

 

[Randall Garrett]

KCR,

The Q550 had a really decent screen for the day but suffered from an anemic CPU and was hamstrung from the get-go. The Q552 is significantly better in that regard, but there is a driver question for Win8 :-(. Rumor has it that we'll soon see a Clover Trail+ model this summer. I'd rather see them hold out for Bay Trail, but a CT+ system would be a great jump for a "Q553." If you were to test drive any of the "regular" CT devices I linked to, you might be very well pleased

You might not like Win8 on your desktop yet, but it s much faster than Win7 or XP and is a "Touch First" product. Try the Start 8 program by Stardock Software on a desktop - well worth the $4.99 for those who miss the Start Orb, and it adds some other clever items . Their Modern Mix looks to be nice, too (still in Beta.). Start 8 also has a free trial download.

http://www.stardock.com/products/start8/

http://www.stardock.com/products/modernmix/

I refuse to let my guys sell my TC1100 - it has an honored pace in my collection - a true harbinger, ahead of its time.


Hope this helps!


-RandallGarrett-
*Apex Software*

/end/

 

[2008 KC Royals]

Randall,
I have read good things about the Start 8 program but didn't get a chance to try it before I went back to 7 on the Q550. I am keeping the Win8 Pro that came with the Q550 when I sell it so I will try it on the next machine I put it on. I have read speculation that MS is going to tone down the tablet UI in the first service pack update to make it better to use on desktops, have you heard anything about that?

One of the main annoyances with the multitouch Windows tablets I have used is unintentional inputs when in the field. Seems like the side of my hand is always hitting something which gets pretty frustrating. When in the field I turn off touch and make it stylus only but this is also not ideal. Is it just me or is it the older tablets I have been using? Has this improved with the current Win 8 tablets?

Thanks for your help.

 

[Randall Garrett]

KCR,

Always glad to help. Limited time this week, though, as my plate is full with development items and some personal stuff for my mom.

It sounds like you may be referring to Windows "Blue" - the next "milestone" build of Windows 8, Pro and WP8. While its been discussed for months in the developer community, and thus the source for many rumors and speculative articles in various blogs, it was only officially announced by MS this week after an unauthorized alpha leak hit the torrents. This build of Blue does, in fact, address many issues as one would expect of later builds in an evolving OS. MS has just released substantial updates to many of the MUI apps for Win8 and I can link you to accurate descriptions if desired, but I believe you are talking about items more closely related to core functionality than to specific apps and their features. As the OS continues to mature, developers simply have more tools to work with, including more experience on their own part(s.) The changes from all previous versions of Windows to Windows 8 is/was a big thing for developers, too. From what we see (and our scope/focus is limited), good things are in store as we move forward. While what we see is exciting, we simply won't know much more until the next /BUILD/ conference later this year. I urge you to read all early articles on Blue with a grain of salt. As the saying goes "Those who know aren't talking, and those who are talking don't know."

With respect to your hardware items, I believe what you describe is generically known as "palm rejection." All "touch" devices have this issue to wrestle with - trying to figure out what you purposely meant to do vs. what you may have actually (albeit unintentionally) done. Humans say "Stupid computer." And the computer responds "Stupid human." Earlier resistive touch screens were more forgiving but people are demanding more sensitive capacitive touch screens today. Pen-based systems are far less prone to inadvertent actions, but since capacitive touch seems to be "the thing" today, most of the systems out today that have "active pen" also have multi-touch layers on their screens. Thus we have to leave it to how well the user interacts with the device and/or clever software features to mitigate the opportunities where things go awry. Most active pen users with years of experience deal with this by simply toggling touch on or off as desired. This is a hardware, but there are things that a clever software person can do to make things work better, more reliably, less error prone. There are but few developers who have the luxury of truly hider standing their users and taking the time to do the "little things" that make applications work more seamlessly with hardware. I like to think that I provide that experience and allow my developers the time to do things just a bit better than some, but those are just words - the proof will be in the pudding.

I think, however, that if you were to A/B your Q550 with any of the more contemporary Win8 devices (especially the ones I linked to), you'd see that they are remarkably better in most every area. Your Q550 was designed for Windows 7 and XP compatibility and lacks the hardware underneath to properly support the advancements in Win8. While significant, the issues are not just "driver" related. Drivers can do only so much - at some point you have to have certain hardware specs to function properly. We're at that point now...

From MY perspective, the only superior aspect of the Fujitsu is their attention to outdoor screen legibility - the rest of the hardware is long in the tooth... At its core, Windows 8 will run faster and in most cases better on even semi- current hardware than would Windows 7 ( it's just "leaner") but with respect to interactive screen hardware, having newer technology there is of major benefit to you, the user, as far as actually getting things done faster and reliably. The money "saved" on sub-standard hardware in this respect, can lead to the device being mostly inadequate and thus slowing you down. Just my 2¢ on that, and please remember that I don't sell hardware to individuals - I am offering my opinion, not trying to sell you a new computer ;-). I'm the appraiser, not the Listing Broker...

FWIW, I think you'll find that the newer business class devices have better palm rejection in them than your Q550. This stuff is constantly evolving and some devices just seem to put their dollars into different aspects of their design. Some want better video, some want better palm rejection... "Work stuff" like form filling, etc. is simply a more important item to business class device buyers than it is to gamer types. Ultimately, though, a large part of the success relies on the app software developer understanding the nature of the problem, their users' needs and taking the time to program the app with attention to things like this as best they can given the tools they have available to them. In appraisal terms, it's sort of like understanding the SOW and using your experience to work with the best of available comp data...


Hope this helps!


-Randall Garrett-
*Apex Software*

/end/

 

[Bill S]

I find all this discussion about tablets very helpful and I think we are all very fortunate to have Randall's insight to all the various models.

I'm still stuck on whether to get a tablet or a hybrid like the lenovo yoga which doubles as a tablet and laptop. I would be able to use a tablet function for field sketches but other than that my work is on a word processor and aside from field sketching my only other business use would be for writing and editing narratives while traveling.

Still stuck trying to figure which way to go but leaning towards a tablet just for the cool factor. Maybe I just keep my old laptop for business work and use a tablet for personal use and sketching.

 

[2008 KC Royals]

I agree Bill, thank you for your insight Randall. Bill, one thing I always make sure of before I get a tablet is the availability of a good bump case. It protects the tablet and I like to have my hands free. I have tried cases with just hand straps like the one of the left but have found everything is easier when you have a shoulder strap and a place to put the pen. Ideally the case will have a spot for the pen that is easy to find and that you don't have to look at every time. If you look at the tablet on the right you can see the pen attached to the bottom. Very easy to find and use. You can't see it in the attached picture but the pen on the middle tablet attaches underneath and is difficult to use, if I wasn't going to sell it I would probably end up using velcro or something to attach it to an easily accessible spot. YMMV but these are a few of the minor issues of tablets that you sometimes don't think about.

Of course, there goes any cool factor out the window.

 

[Randall Garrett]

Bill S,

Glad to help. Pardon me while I go try to reduce the size of my swollen head ;-). Seriously, I sometimes worry that my posts are too long, too detailed and may miss some items that are important to others. So, let me know if I need to respond to items that are NOT being covered adequately.

I think that on your decision process for tablet vs. hybrid, you need to let the main purposes drive things and the extra "sometimes" stuff be of secondary importance (duh, right?) The type of hybrid I like best is the type where the "tablet" can be detached from the keyboard. I think this offers the most flexibility - lighter weight when you want just the tablet, full keyboard, etc. when you need to bang out a lot of text, hook up a mouse, external monitor, whatever. The Helix is but one example - and a bit pricey for some (?). You should know that there are less expensive alternatives. The Samsung 700T is out now and runs some $500 less ($999.). It has similar raw specs - it is just a consumer class device with a lower build quality (not bad, just not premium), no extra battery in the keyboard dock and other things like that.

http://www.microsoftstore.com/store...-Pro-700T-Tablet/productID.257323700/vip.true


IF your field needs are less than a full desktop replacement category machine (i.e. Core i5 or Core i7), the new Clover Trail (Intel "Atom" Z2760) hybrids that are viable alternatives to the upper end Helix. If you don't need/want active pen capability, the Yoga is attractive but you always have the extra weight/bulk of the keyboard. Devices like the Samsung 500T run about half what a Helix runs. I like the ASUS TF810C better (brighter screen, better build quality) but it is $75 - $100 more (without keyboard dock) and is harder to find in stock at present. Both have touch and active pen.

http://www.microsoftstore.com/store...t-PC-500T-Tablet/productID.256043200/vip.true

http://www.microsoftstore.com/store...ab-TF810C-Tablet/productID.256540300/vip.true

The links above are to the Microsoft Signature store. You can find them for less at various on-line sites and/or "big box retail" stores, but you'll want to get rid of the bloat ware that comes on them. Devices purchased via the Microsoft Signature program are all "cleaned" and tuned to run the way they were meant to run. I've found that the small premium is worth it. YMMV on that opinion. Neither of these are business class devices, but the price is considerably lower, too. As I said, the Samsung is good, but I like the ASUS better for fit and finish and the brighter screen.


Hope this helps!


-Randall Garrett-
*Apex Software*

[Edit] - FWIW, I agree with KCR (thanks for pointing that out) regarding the strap. One thing I have found handy is to look at any active pen ("stylus" sic) as your "emergency backup" stylus. The included pens are usually slim and not like the ones that came with Tablet PCs of yore. I use an aftermarket pen with a clip for storage in my shirt pocket. Old appraiser habits de hard, and my bait is to put my pen back in my pocket, not store it elsewhere. I keep the included pen in the silo (if equipped) and use my thicker, "manly" stylus as my norm...

/end/