Here Is Why FHA Fees Go Up $150

[aaaatx]

BELOW IS A STIP AN APPRAISER GOT:




View attachment 26947

FHA might not be requiring it but some clients are going to require it. They already are.

THE ABOVE IS A STIP FROM AN AMC.

Unfortunately the consumer ultimately suffers for these ridiculous stipulations as they have to pay the higher fees. I have always done the inspection as much as possible and will NOT crawl completely under a house or in an attic. There is NOT enough money to make me do it. Looks like a lot of subject to inspection by a professional at a cost to the consumer. I will continue as usual but will require professionals more adamantly---subject to---!!!

 

[CANative]

Unfortunately the consumer ultimately suffers for these ridiculous stipulations as they have to pay the higher fees. I have always done the inspection as much as possible and will NOT crawl completely under a house or in an attic. There is NOT enough money to make me do it. Looks like a lot of subject to inspection by a professional at a cost to the consumer. I will continue as usual but will require professionals more adamantly---subject to---!!!

The attachment omits certain parts of the protocol. Namely the protocol when access is limited.

 

[Ms. Janet]

As a longtime connoisseur of The National Enquirer , I can say with certainty there is always a little bit of "truth" in every article.
SHOCKING NEWS!!! Daryl Hannah may have osteoporosis!!!!
Truth: Daryl Hannah really did break her foot. Foot fractures really can be a sign of brittle bones. Brittle bones may really be a sign of osteoporosis.

People start AMC, FHA, etc threads just like they write the National Enquirer. Stirring the pot, Looking for the "OMG" reaction.

"Appraisers are doing appraisals on $6M waterfront homes for $250!!!".
Truth: An AMC really did send an automated email request for an appraisal with a $250 fee. The property really was a $6M waterfront home. The OP in the thread really did counter back with a fee quote they felt was appropriate. The OP in the thread did not receive the order. The OP in the thread has no idea who accepted the order or what the negotiated fee was.

"Here Is Why FHA Fees Go Up $150!!!"
Truth: The Appraiser must visually observe all areas of the attic and the crawl space per HUD 4000.1 Handbook
The appraiser must visually observe all areas of the crawl space and attic IN ORDER TO to notify HUD of any deficiency of the Minimum Property Requirements (MPR) or Minimum Property Standards (MPS)
Deficient Conditions are not subjective. Deficient conditions are factual and observable and defined by HUD. Deficient conditions, attic and crawl space inspections are not new.

The OP in this thread could write for the National Enquirer!

 

[azbassman21]

A lot of panic about a lot of nothing. I keep repeating that 4000.1 is almost the same as 4150.00.

I started FHA 20+ years ago and head & Shoulder inspections, crawl space, operating mechanical equipment, peeling paint on pre-1978 homes, loose wiring, testing a sample set of electrical outlets, turning on the water flushing toilets, observing the roof from the ground for evidence of missing shingles , looking at interior ceilings for evidence of water stains due to a leaking roof , reporting external issues like rail road tracks, power lines, airports or being located adjacent a gas station. ** Nothing New.

Use some common sense FHA/HUD does not require you to crawl under the house or walk on rafters when there is no supportable floor. A finished attic with floor then yes you may enter and observe. If not stick your head in the scuttle and with a large flashlight look around the best you can and take some photos, if you see something weird like loose wires, a dead body or a hole in the underside of the roof then report it. Look in the crawl space with your flashlight and take some photos. If you see evidence of water leaking from pipes underneath or water draining under the home call it out .

Call your local HOC if you are not sure and explain the situation because the appraisers are fairly nice and most of the time they will tell you to observe what you can physically. They do not expect you to walk on a rafter or 2 X 4 and fall through the owners ceiling. Write down the day and time of your conversation and document it in your work file.

In Summary: Nothing has really changed it's just many newer appraisers may have not been doing FHA properly for a long time and many never read 4150.00 or took a class. It was easier back in the day because FHA required us to use VC sheets ( valuation condition ) the form walked you step by step through the property with check boxes with questions about electrical , peeling paint, termites etc.

You old guys crack me up. From day one it has amazed me how quickly these veteran appraisers are to put down or discredit the work or ability of another appraiser because they have a differing view about something in the appraisal process. Do you really think HUD changed the handbooks and the verbiage within to have it be the same, or to shift just a little more of the liability towards us?? I think it's naive to think that HUD made changes for no reason other than to update the handbooks. We are appraisers, and should not be required to complete checks for the safety and soundness of the structure when we are not structural engineers, the heating and cooling when we are not certified HVAC technicians, or any other systems within the home when we are not qualified to do so. I don't do FHA assignments because they are ridiculous in my opinion, and mine are filled with disclaimers stating the obvious. Just my opinion, and go ahead and call me a newbie, skippy, ignorant, whatever. I don't subject myself to unjust liabilities just for a few extra bucks and have plenty of other things I can be doing instead of looking in an attic with a flash light to verify there is no mold when it's 150 degrees in there in the middle of July. Have all the FHA work you want, there are more effective ways to make a living than to satisfy HUD's craving for a quasi home inspection without actually paying for one.

 

[Vermonter]

You old guys crack me up. From day one it has amazed me how quickly these veteran appraisers are to put down or discredit the work or ability of another appraiser because they have a differing view about something in the appraisal process. Do you really think HUD changed the handbooks and the verbiage within to have it be the same, or to shift just a little more of the liability towards us?? I think it's naive to think that HUD made changes for no reason other than to update the handbooks. We are appraisers, and should not be required to complete checks for the safety and soundness of the structure when we are not structural engineers, the heating and cooling when we are not certified HVAC technicians, or any other systems within the home when we are not qualified to do so. I don't do FHA assignments because they are ridiculous in my opinion, and mine are filled with disclaimers stating the obvious. Just my opinion, and go ahead and call me a newbie, skippy, ignorant, whatever. I don't subject myself to unjust liabilities just for a few extra bucks and have plenty of other things I can be doing instead of looking in an attic with a flash light to verify there is no mold when it's 150 degrees in there in the middle of July. Have all the FHA work you want, there are more effective ways to make a living than to satisfy HUD's craving for a quasi home inspection without actually paying for one.

Yer not getting it....us old guys (guess I'm one of them now) that have been thru HUD/FHA changes a few times, know this happens every time. Appraisers panic at first and then find out later the sky is not falling.

 

[azbassman21]

Yer not getting it....us old guys (guess I'm one of them now) that have been thru HUD/FHA changes a few times, know this happens every time. Appraisers panic at first and then find out later the sky is not falling.

No, I get it perfectly, and I don't think the sky is falling with FHA, I think the whole appraisal industry is one giant punching bag which has become dichotomous between young and veteran appraisers with differing views. You said newer appraisers haven't been doing FHA appraisals correctly because they haven't read the handbooks. I read the old ones and I've read this one as well. Have at it with FHA. Never liked doing them in the first place, because I think it's a load of BS to have to verify certain things we are not qualified to verify or guarantee it's functionality. And if you think they just had the intentions of clarifying items with this new handbook, best of luck to you and your appraisal career. I'm not going to play the governments game and report items I have no business reporting.

We can sit here and say that BPOs or "mini appraisals" as they were calling them back in the day are unfair because real estate agents should not be completing appraisal like assignments, yet we feel comfortable certifying the functionality of an HVAC system, the safety of a house, and whether or not the plumbing is functioning properly, and whether the septic tank is working, among a list of other items, and we are not certified home inspectors? Again I get what you're saying but I'm not signing off on something unless I can for sure say it's working or not. I just wish appraisers were a little more cohesive, and not so divisive every time we bring up an issue. We might actually get what we all want.

Again, good luck. And no offense by insinuating you were an old guy, I should have used the term "veteran". I do value your opinion and appreciate your clarifications on these issues.

 

[glenn walker]

In my opinion I believe FHA just took 95% of 4150.00 and tried to simplify it but it was unfortunate the bureaucrats as usual did not really read some parts of it from the appraisers perspective. Yes there are some changes but many appraisers only read the first punch line and didnt follow through. I have spoken to appraisers at HOC about observing the attic and crawl space areas and both agreed that it should have been made more clear that you can only observe what is visible. The other problem is in states like California most attic scuttle doors do not lead to a true attic just the open area below the roof and you cannot walk up there because you would break the 2 X 4 or your feet would go through the ceiling . In the East and Midwest there are many homes with finished attics that have drop down stairs or built in stair cases and the appraiser can walk up and enter the attic area. Both appraisers at HOC stated that FHA does not expect the appraiser to risk hurting themselves or damaging the owners property. The appraiser should just take a photo of what he/she can observe and explain. The situation is the same for the crawl space areas.

FHA/HUD understands that not all attics & crawl spaces can be fully inspected and just like in the winter FHA understands that some roofs have 2 to 3 feet of snow on them and it's not possible to observe the roof to see if it appears damaged or is missing shingles. The appraiser just needs to explain what is going on and provide plenty of photos. The folks at FHA are actually fairly nice guys and gals and many were practicing appraisers and they understand the 4000.1 is a guideline and it has flexibility. If the appraiser is just too plain scared to complete these assignments I Understand but just remember if in doubt about something E-mail FHA or call your HOC and talk to them and believe me they will assist you so you don't get into a mess.

As far as age or how long the appraiser has been in the business that is not a reflection of a good or bad appraiser because there are very good appraisers who have been in this business for less than 5 years and there are some really bad appraisers who have been repeating the same mistakes for 30 years. There are also old Skippie's and young Skippie's.

 

[Terrel L. Shields]

many were practicing appraisers

Perhaps after they are done practicing they might try to appraise a couple using their own rule book and see if they can do it for real.

 

[glenn walker]

You old guys crack me up. From day one it has amazed me how quickly these veteran appraisers are to put down or discredit the work or ability of another appraiser because they have a differing view about something in the appraisal process. Do you really think HUD changed the handbooks and the verbiage within to have it be the same, or to shift just a little more of the liability towards us?? I think it's naive to think that HUD made changes for no reason other than to update the handbooks. We are appraisers, and should not be required to complete checks for the safety and soundness of the structure when we are not structural engineers, the heating and cooling when we are not certified HVAC technicians, or any other systems within the home when we are not qualified to do so. I don't do FHA assignments because they are ridiculous in my opinion, and mine are filled with disclaimers stating the obvious. Just my opinion, and go ahead and call me a newbie, skippy, ignorant, whatever. I don't subject myself to unjust liabilities just for a few extra bucks and have plenty of other things I can be doing instead of looking in an attic with a flash light to verify there is no mold when it's 150 degrees in there in the middle of July. Have all the FHA work you want, there are more effective ways to make a living than to satisfy HUD's craving for a quasi home inspection without actually paying for one.

I don't recall anyone calling you a newbie or Skippie. Each appraiser has the right to make a business decision. If you do not feel comfortable doing FHA that is your choice and your right and in the long run that may be a wise choice because you will limit your liability.

 

[Tom D]

let's get back to the fee increase question. i'm outside standing by my mailbox in shorts waiting for that check. hope it doesn't start snowing while i'm waiting. i know about good, or bad, old appraisers, but at least us olders have memories of the golden age of appraising. i would call today the plantation age of appraising.