Client Says Change It To 3 Bedroom. And Call The 4th Br A "study"

[Terrel L. Shields]

ecause there is a conflicting official determination

My client called and asked me to change a report from 4 bedroom to 3 bedroom because the septic permit only allows 3 bedroom.​

I don't see any conflict. The appraiser is making the determination it is a bedroom. What is its real "name" via the architect? The fact I can put a bed in the living room does not make it a bedroom even if it has a closet and windows. Call it what the architect calls it. And you can bet when built the house called that 4th something else and the state accepted it as such. What the owners use it for is their business. I have a 3rd bedroom but most would call it a junk room and it has no bed, so what is it really vs. what was its original design?

 

[Dublin ohio]

My client called and asked me to change a report from 4 bedroom to 3 bedroom because the septic permit only allows 3 bedroom.​

I don't see any conflict. The appraiser is making the determination it is a bedroom. What is its real "name" via the architect? The fact I can put a bed in the living room does not make it a bedroom even if it has a closet and windows. Call it what the architect calls it. And you can bet when built the house called that 4th something else and the state accepted it as such. What the owners use it for is their business. I have a 3rd bedroom but most would call it a junk room and it has no bed, so what is it really vs. what was its original design?

The municipality issued c of o as 4 bedroom but septic permit only allows for 3 bedrooms. I call that a conflict. You call it what you want..

 

[timd354]

Because there is a conflicting official determination

No, there is not any conflict. A Certificate of Occupancy allowing for a 4 bedroom was issued after completion or substantial completion of the house...that means that the home has been determined to be a legal 4 BR home per the local municipality's building inspector. What do you think a certificate of occupancy is, anyhow? It is a certification that the local municipality has determined that subject property improvements comply with the applicable building codes, zoning and health regulations and other laws which apply to the construction of the property (which would include any laws or regulations applying to septic or sewer). The C/O is the official determination that the property is legal in most jurisdictions, period, end of story.

By all means the appraiser should report that the septic permit was issued for a 3 BR home and if the lender has legal concerns, the lender can deal with the legal issues, which is not the appraiser's job.

 

[Dublin ohio]

What do you think a certificate of occupancy is, anyhow?

I know exactly what it is. But you are making the assumption that the septic permit falls under same jurisdiction. Which it very well may. Around here it falls under the jurisdiction of the health department. Or the inspector could have missed the fact that the septic system only allows for 3 bedrooms. I have seen it happen.

period, end of story.

And now you know the rest of the story.

 

[jay trotta]

I know exactly what it is. But you are making the assumption that the septic permit falls under same jurisdiction. Which it very well may. Around here it falls under the jurisdiction of the health department. Or the inspector could have missed the fact that the septic system only allows for 3 bedrooms. I have seen it happen.



And now you know the rest of the story.

Agreed, and will add just a bit; septic system design is set by the local "Health Dept & Health Code", when it is set at 3BR, you can change whatever you like, BUT, you are in violation of not only the local municipal Code, but State Health Code. 2 /3 /4 BR require specific requirements for proper functionality and also require a reserve area (future potential). When and IF you decide to expand from a 3BR to 4BR, you would be required to get the Local Health Dept involved to meet "Current Health Code" requirements. A "Health & Safety" issue, State & Nation Wide.

Therefore, the "Lender Request" to correct the report from a 4BR to a 3BR is accurate and warranted; Unless you or the Seller are willing to meet all the required "Health Code Expansion Requirements" for a 4BR.

Good Luck

 

[timd354]

I know exactly what it is. But you are making the assumption that the septic permit falls under same jurisdiction. Which it very well may. Around here it falls under the jurisdiction of the health department. Or the inspector could have missed the fact that the septic system only allows for 3 bedrooms. I have seen it happen.

And now you know the rest of the story.

No, apparently you don't know what it is or what it signifies. The C/O is the official determination that that the home complies with all applicable laws and regulations, which would include any applicable septic/sewer laws/regs/permits issued by the health department (at least that is how it works in every jurisdiction that I am familiar with). Once the C/O is issued, that certifies that the house has been deemed to be legal by the local municipality.

 

[BRCJR]

Because the number of occupants is not based on the number of bathrooms

I agree and expand a little bit...why not permit it based upon number of permanent occupants? You have one child too many and you got to move !!!

 

[ucbruin]

No, there is not any conflict. A Certificate of Occupancy allowing for a 4 bedroom was issued after completion or substantial completion of the house...that means that the home has been determined to be a legal 4 BR home per the local municipality's building inspector. What do you think a certificate of occupancy is, anyhow? It is a certification that the local municipality has determined that subject property improvements comply with the applicable building codes, zoning and health regulations and other laws which apply to the construction of the property (which would include any laws or regulations applying to septic or sewer). The C/O is the official determination that the property is legal in most jurisdictions, period, end of story.

By all means the appraiser should report that the septic permit was issued for a 3 BR home and if the lender has legal concerns, the lender can deal with the legal issues, which is not the appraiser's job.

Regarding the C/O, don't you believe mistakes can be made....

 

[timd354]

Regarding the C/O, don't you believe mistakes can be made....

It is not the appraiser's job to figure out whether the building inspector made a mistake in issuing the C/O. In this case, the subject property is a new construction 4 BR house and there has been a C/O issued by the local municipality for the subject property to be used as a 4 bedroom house - thus the appraiser should complete the appraisal and move on to the next assignment. It is not the appraiser's job to second guess or police the local municipality's building inspection department (I bet the local municipality knows more about their building/zoning laws and regs than the aprpaiser in any case). Once the C/O is issued, that house is legal and its not like the local municipality can go back and make the property owner tear down the house afterwards.

 

[ucbruin]

It is not the appraiser's job to figure out whether the building inspector made a mistake in issuing the C/O. In this case, the subject property is a new construction 4 BR house and there has been a C/O issued by the local municipality for the subject property to be used as a 4 bedroom house - thus the appraiser should complete the appraisal and move on to the next assignment. It is not the appraiser's job to second guess or police the local municipality's building inspection department (I bet the local municipality knows more about their building/zoning laws and regs than the aprpaiser in any case). Once the C/O is issued, that house is legal and its not like the local municipality can go back and make the property owner tear down the house afterwards.

If the reviewer worked for you, would you tell him/her to rescind the revision request?